Jakob needs a kick!

Did anybody notice McSweyn giving Katir a shove coming into the last 100? It must have slowed McSweyn down a bit & maybe helped Katir as well

Kai Fdwards wrote:

Did anybody notice McSweyn giving Katir a shove coming into the last 100? It must have slowed McSweyn down a bit & maybe helped Katir as well

Always trying to find excuses.

Katir had strategy from his coach to follow Inger like his shadow.

Born slow? He doesn't do enough sprint work to have the acceleration needed in a 3:35 race but he can get it. It's not that all the Ethiopians at the elite level have fantastic in-born speed. After all, there are no top level Ethiopian sprinters. But their distance runners do sprints in spikes multiple times per week and do sprints or hard accelerations within many of their forest runs up above Addis. Jakob's training is missing some of this component, faster than 800m pace work. As for missing training, I'm betting that he ran most days but no 'workouts'.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

He actually has a damned good kick.

He outkicks nearly everyone

Not really. He outkicked Gebrhiwet who was on 3 days rest after a 10,000 and is I guess Ethiopia’s 6th best 5k/10k runner or so? Has he outkicked anyone else of note? Otherwise he’s been outkicked by Katir, Kiplimo, Lewandowski, Gebrhiwet, Barega, Edris, Ahmed in pretty big spots. He is very fit and can hold people off. It is not that he can’t finish, but more he doesn’t have a change of pace, which is what people mean by kick in this context. Tim didn’t used to but you can see now that he expands his margin the last 50 meters with an acceleration. He also is willing to take the lead early in a championship race.

He outkicks nearly everyone in every 1500 meters race except Tim. C. Ditto in longer races except for J Kiplimo. He got "outkicked" in the 5,000 m in the 2019 WC because he went too early and ran out of gas. There are a handful of top African runners who have regularly outkicked him, That's it. He has been outkicked by Lewandowski once or twice in many meetings.

zcxvxcv wrote:

Born slow? He doesn't do enough sprint work to have the acceleration needed in a 3:35 race but he can get it. It's not that all the Ethiopians at the elite level have fantastic in-born speed. After all, there are no top level Ethiopian sprinters. But their distance runners do sprints in spikes multiple times per week and do sprints or hard accelerations within many of their forest runs up above Addis. Jakob's training is missing some of this component, faster than 800m pace work. As for missing training, I'm betting that he ran most days but no 'workouts'.

Well, but Gjert will not take your advice into account. His "philosophy" is that it depends on how much fuel you have when it is 300 meters left. And by all means Jakob is going to run much much faster than a slow 3,35 in Tokyo. He trains his sons to not outkick but outrun their opponents. He has heard your advice many times, but prioritize training differently. You are betting all right. If you are right both father and son is lying.

Five is the magic number wrote:

If you had read his father's book you'd know that their ultimate goal is for one of the brothers to run an even paced 3.20-3.22.

Yes, 3.20-3.22.

His father has done a good job with the three boys. But let’s be honest he has little connection to the history of the sport. 3:20-3:22 obviously assumes a continued improvement year after year. But those who have 30-40+ years of following the sport know that just because Hicham run 3:26 and Bekele 12:37 doesn’t mean you keep taking 1 or 2 seconds off every year. Gert is dillusional.

onli one wrote:

Five is the magic number wrote:

If you had read his father's book you'd know that their ultimate goal is for one of the brothers to run an even paced 3.20-3.22.

Yes, 3.20-3.22.

His father has done a good job with the three boys. But let’s be honest he has little connection to the history of the sport. 3:20-3:22 obviously assumes a continued improvement year after year. But those who have 30-40+ years of following the sport know that just because Hicham run 3:26 and Bekele 12:37 doesn’t mean you keep taking 1 or 2 seconds off every year. Gert is dillusional.

Would Filip be willing to rabbit for Jakob in the Oly final so that the race is paced perfectly to give Jakob the best chance to win? Filip has no chance to medal, so why not help ensure his brother does, assuming he makes the final.

filip won't even get out of the first round, be realistic. jakob and cherry will have a pacer by the name of burrito man who likes taking the race out slow. my predictions are buritto man will control the entire race and scam the favorites out of the race. jakob won't medal this year, he will get outkicked in paris 2024 for a silver or bronze and then in los angeles 2028 is when he should expect a gold medal. assuming wada doesn't catch him for doping in that time frame.

assuming he makes the final wrote:

filip won't even get out of the first round, be realistic. jakob and cherry will have a pacer by the name of burrito man who likes taking the race out slow. my predictions are buritto man will control the entire race and scam the favorites out of the race. jakob won't medal this year, he will get outkicked in paris 2024 for a silver or bronze and then in los angeles 2028 is when he should expect a gold medal. assuming wada doesn't catch him for doping in that time frame.

Does Tim need somebody ahead of him for 800 to run like he did in Monaco? If either Tim or Jakob allow Centro to run ahead of them even for 200m, they are idiots. Centro should be finishing the race in 8th or 9th, tying up, and running his season’s best of 3:32, a good 4 seconds behind the winners. If Tim or Jakob allow this race to be won in the 3:30s, wow, big mistake.

I've read quite a bit of their training theories, they are taken a unique approach, and you can't argue with the success, but I continue to wonder if their range of training will ultimately prevent them from winning! The theory of avoiding highly lactate environments is interesting, but they may want to cycle more intensity in.

onli one wrote:

Five is the magic number wrote:

If you had read his father's book you'd know that their ultimate goal is for one of the brothers to run an even paced 3.20-3.22.

Yes, 3.20-3.22.

His father has done a good job with the three boys. But let’s be honest he has little connection to the history of the sport. 3:20-3:22 obviously assumes a continued improvement year after year. But those who have 30-40+ years of following the sport know that just because Hicham run 3:26 and Bekele 12:37 doesn’t mean you keep taking 1 or 2 seconds off every year. Gert is dillusional.

Does this mean that Gjert thinks he is a giant pickle?

He runs in second and finishes second in drag races. That is not outkicking everyone it’s holding them off…there’s a reason despite laying off the pace in Doha and having plenty left, he didn’t finish better than 4th. It is not a knock on him to say this is his strength. The denial here is ridiculous. Jakob knows his strengths as does Gjert and you guys are pretending like he’s Yifter the Shifter.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

He runs in second and finishes second in drag races. That is not outkicking everyone it’s holding them off…there’s a reason despite laying off the pace in Doha and having plenty left, he didn’t finish better than 4th. It is not a knock on him to say this is his strength. The denial here is ridiculous. Jakob knows his strengths as does Gjert and you guys are pretending like he’s Yifter the Shifter.

He shifted gears on hoare and mcsweyn quite well at gateshead.

A 13.3+ last 100…I get that it was windy, but it wasn’t explosive by any means to my eyes. And again it was an exhibition of him having the jump on guys and keeping guys at bay, hunting guys down is not his forte. It’s not Cheruiyots either but he has steadily improved at shifting and has a higher gear.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

A 13.3+ last 100…I get that it was windy, but it wasn’t explosive by any means to my eyes. And again it was an exhibition of him having the jump on guys and keeping guys at bay, hunting guys down is not his forte. It’s not Cheruiyots either but he has steadily improved at shifting and has a higher gear.

yes. look at the womens 100m from that meet to understand just how windy.

Def windy. If you want to do something back of the envelope, Asher-Smith ran .5 off her 100m PB. But some of that must be chalked up to the cold and calling it her best ever 100m is strong though she beat big names. I think saying Jakobs close was more like a 13-flat in a moderately fast effort (~worth 3:32-3 in good conditions). Again it was solid but not a huge kick to me.

zcxvxcv wrote:

Born slow? He doesn't do enough sprint work to have the acceleration needed in a 3:35 race but he can get it. It's not that all the Ethiopians at the elite level have fantastic in-born speed. After all, there are no top level Ethiopian sprinters. But their distance runners do sprints in spikes multiple times per week and do sprints or hard accelerations within many of their forest runs up above Addis. Jakob's training is missing some of this component, faster than 800m pace work. As for missing training, I'm betting that he ran most days but no 'workouts'.

Arm drive! It's a simple matter of kicking your leg back faster but the physics of it requires the opposite arm be thrown back faster too.

A lot of distance runners including Jakob hear this a million times but they never actually do it. Instead they just run harder, sure that'll work. Like dancing ballet harder will master the jumps, no, it's just technique.

zcxvxcv wrote:

but he can get it.

Kick is not something we can train.

You have (at some degree) or you don't have it.

Look at the examples of Iguidir or Tefera.

onli one wrote:

Five is the magic number wrote:

If you had read his father's book you'd know that their ultimate goal is for one of the brothers to run an even paced 3.20-3.22.

Yes, 3.20-3.22.

His father has done a good job with the three boys. But let’s be honest he has little connection to the history of the sport. 3:20-3:22 obviously assumes a continued improvement year after year. But those who have 30-40+ years of following the sport know that just because Hicham run 3:26 and Bekele 12:37 doesn’t mean you keep taking 1 or 2 seconds off every year. Gert is dillusional.

Ok, but where in the book? Can't find it in the book.He has said, September last year, that Jakob might run under 3.26 in a Podcast.