BREAKING NEWS !!! - Mboma (48.54) WITHDRAWN from the 400 in the Olympics (Yes, Really)

High hopes - you have got to be kidding. A small nation with a lot to gain withdraws two world leading athletes and you think there is a chance they will be reinstated? Plus, the Mboma video depicts volumes. An athlete with very poor form - something we do see in male high school races - demolishes a Polish runner who has been of the world’s best 4 x 4 anchors? Suspicion levels are through the roof. I do feel for these athletes but at the same time their federations know what is going on and yet set them up for heartbreak. I am a bit perplexed by the testosterone angle alone because being born XY confers structural advantages as well such as typically a higher center of gravity. And the speculation about what is in people’s heads is meaningless. I will tell you what is in my head. My mother, who just passed away - was an excellent athlete - far better than her sons who ran under 4:08 for a mile and went to school on D1 scholarships- had two sports to choose from in college - both at the club level - golf and field hockey. I greatly enjoy watching the women today compete in any number of sports, as for example having watched every women’s NCAA basketball tournament final played. The women simply deserve a level playing field.

For those knee-jerks crying "racism", do you fully support the banning of the Russian Federation, whose all/mostly white athletes were stealing medals from clean people of all races from around the world?

I think that most posters on this site would support removal of all records from the Eastern Bloc (mostly or all white) and China, but not African nations (unless a systemic doping/concealment culture is revealed, as many of us suspect exists in Ethiopia but not Kenya)

Mako T&F Enthusiast wrote:

mathematics wrote:

I'm just here to point out that the limit for intersex testosterone is 5nmol/L and for transgender MtoF it's 10nmol/L.

Only biological women should be competing in women's sporting events.

They should be banned but they are still biological women but a variation of women but all these variations,trans people should get kicked out of the olympics pronto

Samuel Mahele Akili wrote:

Mako T&F Enthusiast wrote:

Only biological women should be competing in women's sporting events.

They should be banned but they are still biological women but a variation of women but all these variations,trans people should get kicked out of the olympics pronto

I just think it's wild that someone physically intersex is given less leeway than someone who mentally is intersex. That is, the standard should probably be tougher for physical men who decide to become women.

Data show the biggest advantage in 400, 800, pole vault and hammer throw, but NOT in 1500/mile. PV and HT are not "restricted" events because currently there is no world class athlete with hyperandrogenism in those events. CAS is not a scientific institution and their decision is not based on scientific findings. From their standpoint, there is no reason to restrict PV or HT because there is no obvious evidence that someone else's interests are hurt.

mathematics wrote:

Samuel Mahele Akili wrote:

They should be banned but they are still biological women but a variation of women but all these variations,trans people should get kicked out of the olympics pronto

I just think it's wild that someone physically intersex is given less leeway than someone who mentally is intersex. That is, the standard should probably be tougher for physical men who decide to become women.

Please elaborate I honestly don't understand you

Not Surprised At All wrote:

hl wrote:

Odd how often this happens.

Also odd is how often people believe ridiculously fast times from young women that come out of no where. Mboma, Masilingi, Seyni, Semenya, etc.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

As in Gabby Thomas. I was happy she ran an awesome time at the trials then found out she missed 3 whereabouts test. Ugh. Too good to be true is right.

theres also a young woman from the dominican republic,who could medal.marileidy paulino.shes done 49.99 this year.it may not be a usa clean sweep at all.

Samuel Mahele Akili wrote:

Mako T&F Enthusiast wrote:

Only biological women should be competing in women's sporting events.

They should be banned but they are still biological women but a variation of women but all these variations,trans people should get kicked out of the olympics pronto

Don’t be so dense. Banning would mean these athletes did something explicit and/or illegal. The truth is, the spectrum of what qualifies as female is so broad it’s difficult to make a call without being called out as a bigot or ignorant. Transgender females (M to F) shouldn’t be allowed to compete with women. DSD athletes, on the other hand, should just be given a Paralympic category of their own.

trollism wrote:

Barely any followers of the sport (of any political leaning) think that athletes like Semenya should be competing with the women.

Exactly.

I don't think any followers of the sport want intersex women who have a testosterone advantage to be competing against XX women.

If their hormone levels match, then go play.

slowbro wrote:

Samuel Mahele Akili wrote:

They should be banned but they are still biological women but a variation of women but all these variations,trans people should get kicked out of the olympics pronto

Don’t be so dense. Banning would mean these athletes did something explicit and/or illegal. The truth is, the spectrum of what qualifies as female is so broad it’s difficult to make a call without being called out as a bigot or ignorant. Transgender females (M to F) shouldn’t be allowed to compete with women. DSD athletes, on the other hand, should just be given a Paralympic category of their own.

The paralympics are not the olympics but I see what you mean. DSD can't compete with women but they can compete among themselves I guess

slowbro wrote:

Transgender females (M to F) shouldn’t be allowed to compete with women. DSD athletes, on the other hand, should just be given a Paralympic category of their own.

A Paralympic category? Why?

Samuel Mahele Akili wrote:

mathematics wrote:

I just think it's wild that someone physically intersex is given less leeway than someone who mentally is intersex. That is, the standard should probably be tougher for physical men who decide to become women.

Please elaborate I honestly don't understand you

If you're intersex you're born that way physically. The testosterone limit is 5 nmol/L

If you're transgender you're born one sex and change to another (I understand the argument that they're born that way mentally, but physically they are fully in the body of a man). The testosterone limit there is 10 nmol/L.

It seems to me that they have it backwards. If you are intersex you actually have to do MORE to prove yourself a woman than if you have declared yourself a woman after declaring yourself a man previously.

HashTag wrote:

LibertyLane wrote:

When I first saw the mboma 400m video, my "not a girl" radar started beeping. Looks like a case of internal testes like castor.

Well when I saw Houlihan run 14:23, my doping radar started beeping. So there you have it. Same with Rupp winning silver at 10000m, Mo Farah at NOP, Cheptegei 12:35 and 26:11….I could go on and on.

+10

You're asking people in this forum to have a heart?? That is only reserved for non Africans unfortunately smh!

The studies they used were lacking enough data to show that there was a big advantage outside the middle distances. They specifically state that they think in cases with levels of testosterone in the male range the advantage is much greater than the 1.8-4.5% range they showed in their study, which indicates that they had very few individuals in the study with testosterone comparable to the 800m cases.

"Funded by the IAAF and the World Anti-Doping Agency, the study describes and characterises serum androgen levels and studies their possible influence on athletic performance in both male and female elite athletes.

The study analysed 2127 mass spectrometry-measured serum androgen concentrations obtained from elite athletes participating in the 2011 and 2013 IAAF World Championships.

Among other things, the study found that in certain events female athletes with high testosterone levels benefit from a 1.8% to 4.5% competitive advantage over female athletes with lower testosterone levels.

Dr Bermon commented: “Our starting position is to defend, protect and promote fair female competition. If, as the study shows, in certain events female athletes with higher testosterone levels can have a competitive advantage of between 1.8-4.5% over female athletes with lower testosterone levels, imagine the magnitude of the advantage for female athletes with testosterone levels in the normal male range. "

jeff tallon wrote:

theres also a young woman from the dominican republic,who could medal.marileidy paulino.shes done 49.99 this year.it may not be a usa clean sweep at all.

There's also Stephenie McPherson who's just run 49.61 at the Jamaican Trials.

Dwightarm wrote:

slowbro wrote:

Transgender females (M to F) shouldn’t be allowed to compete with women. DSD athletes, on the other hand, should just be given a Paralympic category of their own.

A Paralympic category? Why?

Seems like the only solution that makes sense. DSD athletes have a medical condition that places them in an outlying minority. They aren’t lesser athletes, but they also shouldn’t be shoehorned into one of two categories. If we introduced a 3rd category in traditional track it wouldn’t be fair because of how few DSD athletes their are in the sport. More than that, real fans would love to see an all out race between some of these stars, Mboma vs Semenya would be incredible.