Flagpole wrote:
Hocker is 20 years old and hardly ran any mileage in high school. He is the youngest 1500 meter runner to be NCAA champ in 110 years
Why are you just making stuff up? 110 years? German Fernandez was a true frosh when he won the NCAA 1500 at age 18. Furthermore, the mile was run in NCAA championships until 1975, except in Olympic years starting in 1932.
He lost it to a guy who also ran 3:35 outdoors and lost to Goose, same Goose that ran 3:34 in a time trial race and got 3rd at the trials, it’s dumb to say Teare isn’t a great miler he would’ve been in the mix at the trials and maybe would’ve placed 3rd-5th if things went well
Only thing stopping that is Ben Thomas knew both of them had a shot to make it in the events they ran at NCAAs, running the 5k was a better bet for Teare but he’s still a great miler
Teare is not a great miler. He has run 3:35.97 for 1500m. You and I have different definitions of what a great miler is. Teare is a pretty good 5000m runner but as a miler he is mediocre at a world class level. You guys need to throw out the video game indoor times and focus on outdoors.
reahnsrjw wrote:
HashTag wrote:
I am talking about 1:44 and 3:30. Who the hell cares what his 5000 on was? What was Seb Coe’s? How irrelevant can your nonsensical post be?
I see you are not very bright... Let me try again.
You used Wheaton's 800m time to compare him with Hocker.
You may not be aware of it but some 1500 m runners are more of the 800/1500 type, while others are more of the 1500/5000 type (like Jakob Ingebrigtsen).
My relevant post was meant to show that you are making a nonsensical comparison using their 800m PRs.
Wrong. A top 1500m runner requires speed and unless they are capable of a decent 800 they won't have it - even if they don't compete seriously over the shorter distance. An example is the way El G closed in 1.46x in the 1500 in Athens 2004. That is speed as well as endurance. And he was also more the 1500/5k type. But 5000 endurance isn't necessary to a 1500 runner. In any case, if Hocker isn't an 800/1500 type, what has he done over the 5k?
Flagpole wrote:
HashTag wrote:
Ignorant post Flagpole. Wheaton won that 800m in 1:45, faster than Hocker has done. Hocker does NOT have more promise than what Wheaton showed before we had the benefit of hindsight. Plus Wheaton did run 1:44 and 3:30 later that year.
INCORRECT!
Hocker is 20 years old and hardly ran any mileage in high school. He is the youngest 1500 meter runner to be NCAA champ in 110 years, and he also just won the Olympic Trials. He ran an indoor mile in 3:50 at age 19. Wheating never EVER ran a mile that fast let alone an indoor mile at age 19.
Sorry dude, Wheating was great, but as we sit here today, Hocker has MORE promise.
The issue is not who is the better runner in what each achieved - or has achieved so far, in Hocking's case - but that we can never foresee what will happen in an athlete's career and sometimes great promise turns to nothing. Nothing can be predicted from Hocking's successes so far, because neither he nor we can know what even the next week will deliver. It could be the first of a series of injuries that never go away or that he hits a peak that he is never able to subsequently surpass. Amos has never run faster than when he was 18, and Ryun peaked at 19 while never getting better than when he was 20.
Hocker undoubtedly has potential, but we are yet to see that it is potential on the world stage. There are many such as him who have shot suddenly to national prominence and disappeared just as fast. If he goes to Tokyo, the pressure of a global championship will be enormous. Remember Alan Webb?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Hocker undoubtedly has potential, but we are yet to see that it is potential on the world stage. There are many such as him who have shot suddenly to national prominence and disappeared just as fast. If he goes to Tokyo, the pressure of a global championship will be enormous. Remember Alan Webb?
+ A lot. (A lot of lots, actually.)
Hocker has made what looked like another dull summer for American men's mid-d much more interesting. I can't wait to see how it all turns out.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
Armstronglivs wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
INCORRECT!
Hocker is 20 years old and hardly ran any mileage in high school. He is the youngest 1500 meter runner to be NCAA champ in 110 years, and he also just won the Olympic Trials. He ran an indoor mile in 3:50 at age 19. Wheating never EVER ran a mile that fast let alone an indoor mile at age 19.
Sorry dude, Wheating was great, but as we sit here today, Hocker has MORE promise.
The issue is not who is the better runner in what each achieved - or has achieved so far, in Hocking's case - but that we can never foresee what will happen in an athlete's career and sometimes great promise turns to nothing. Nothing can be predicted from Hocking's successes so far, because neither he nor we can know what even the next week will deliver. It could be the first of a series of injuries that never go away or that he hits a peak that he is never able to subsequently surpass. Amos has never run faster than when he was 18, and Ryun peaked at 19 while never getting better than when he was 20.
Hocker undoubtedly has potential, but we are yet to see that it is potential on the world stage. There are many such as him who have shot suddenly to national prominence and disappeared just as fast. If he goes to Tokyo, the pressure of a global championship will be enormous. Remember Alan Webb?
Promise/potential is just that. Doesn't mean anything WILL happen. Hocker's 3:50 MILE at age 19 shows more promise than anything Wheating did.
History says STFD wrote:
Hocker exhibits EXACTLY the same personality and behavior tendancies as Wheating from my own observations and those close to him report. Injuries hurt Wheating but more than anything it is near impossible to meet the constant pressure of being the next big UO mega star to make a middle or long distance Olympic team. That has led to many, most even, crashing and burning. Centro accomplished the ultimate win but in the last 5 years he certainly has done little to back it up. Could Hocker turn out to be dominate for a decade? Certainly but the odds are he doesn’t. He makes a couple of the tactical mistakes he was able to overcome in Tokyo then he might not even make the final or come up short of a medal in the final.
The quote I posted was for this guy and everyone who pretends to know more about the athletes than the athletes themselves. Yes, we are allowed to speculate and commentate and even critique. But one should be wary of doing so to the level of this guy.
Splits Guy wrote:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
Is that in the training manual?
Flagpole wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The issue is not who is the better runner in what each achieved - or has achieved so far, in Hocking's case - but that we can never foresee what will happen in an athlete's career and sometimes great promise turns to nothing. Nothing can be predicted from Hocking's successes so far, because neither he nor we can know what even the next week will deliver. It could be the first of a series of injuries that never go away or that he hits a peak that he is never able to subsequently surpass. Amos has never run faster than when he was 18, and Ryun peaked at 19 while never getting better than when he was 20.
Hocker undoubtedly has potential, but we are yet to see that it is potential on the world stage. There are many such as him who have shot suddenly to national prominence and disappeared just as fast. If he goes to Tokyo, the pressure of a global championship will be enormous. Remember Alan Webb?
Promise/potential is just that. Doesn't mean anything WILL happen. Hocker's 3:50 MILE at age 19 shows more promise than anything Wheating did.
It isn't whether one had more potential than the other but that athletes who are predicted for great things - as apparently Wheating was - don't necessarily deliver. There a long way to go before Hocking ascends an international dais. So far Jakob has to be a favorite while Hocking is still a dark horse. If he makes the final then all bets are off.
Tremcc wrote:
I mean, pretty much every great US miler has been a bust, right? Ryun didnt win gold, Webb never even made a final. Steve Scott never had a great shot. Centro really didnt have high expectations put on him. A decade ago, how many people would have thought he would win gold? Point being, why be negative in thinking Hocker can’t accomplish more in the future?
Exactly. People saying that although we have high expectations Hocker might not do well on the world stage, how many American stars have ever performed well in distance on the world stage besides a very select few?
The differences between Wheating and Hocker is all in the details, outside of the obvious age difference.
Wheating didn't take down the competition Hocker did at NCAAs or the Trials. The splits he's run to close and win races are not on the same level as Hocker. And his performances at USA Championships with greater competition don't stand up to what Hocker just did.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Promise/potential is just that. Doesn't mean anything WILL happen. Hocker's 3:50 MILE at age 19 shows more promise than anything Wheating did.
It isn't whether one had more potential than the other but that athletes who are predicted for great things - as apparently Wheating was - don't necessarily deliver. There a long way to go before Hocking ascends an international dais. So far Jakob has to be a favorite while Hocking is still a dark horse. If he makes the final then all bets are off.
This discussion was ONLY about promise/potential, so within the parameters of this discussion, it IS about "whether one had more potential than the other".
Flagpole wrote:
HashTag wrote:
There is not winning here. To say that Hocker has more promise is to manifest a delusional state. You by definition cannot be aware of this state you are in. The only way to win this debate is if we changed the terms to maybe a forecast of whether Hocker will have a great career, however that is defined. I am simply smarter than you in instilling some caution by reminding you of Wheaton. You are suffering from the inability to disentangle the last decade from what was the case in 2010.
Nope! Ya lost! I'm not even the only one in this thread who has said so, and I don't see ANYONE agreeing with you.
Wheating NEVER did ANYTHING as great as run an indoor mile in 3:50 at age 19. The promise from that moment on was greater than any promise Wheating ever had at any age.
Ya lost!
You definitely lost. Just go away, no one likes you.
You are trying to compare Wheating to Hocker?? Lmao!!
Great video of Wheating doubling. Wasn't it that year in which he ran 1:44/3:30 in Europe? And in that 1500m, we see him and Acosta beating Matthew Centrowitz, who in 2011 won bronze at World's. Centro was already showing the perfect tactical instincts that led him to first around that last bend and only caught at the very end of the race. Who knew that Centro would wind up the most decorated American-born distance runner and Wheating never close to his 2010 form again? Hocker, though, is not a guy who came on late to run track, like Wheating. And he does not seem to have any mental issues about dominating. He can win a race from any position in the field.
Matthew Maton, anyone?? Lots and lots of examples of flameouts. Time will tell on Hocker.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
The differences between Wheating and Hocker is all in the details, outside of the obvious age difference.
Wheating didn't take down the competition Hocker did at NCAAs or the Trials. The splits he's run to close and win races are not on the same level as Hocker. And his performances at USA Championships with greater competition don't stand up to what Hocker just did.
The above is mostly nonsense. Wheating took the scalps of multiple future Olympians and a future gold medalist. 2010 Wheating beats 2021 Hocker in 9 out of 10 races..
distancerunningwizard wrote:
You are trying to compare Wheating to Hocker?? Lmao!!
Yes it is laughable to compare a 1:46 3:35 runner to a 1:44 3:30 runner.