Can you really train the last 600?

You can definitely simulate last portions of a race in practice by running longer reps to get tired then pushing the last X-distance that you're trying to work on.

For example, in order to improve our kicks in the 800, my hs coach had us do 4 x 1k with the first 800 in around 3k pace, then the last 200 trying to hit 800 pace. I find these types of workouts to be helpful and build confidence and they definitely feel like the end of a race, but should be done sparingly.

I mean, what you are saying is essentially correct, the only thing your body actually knows is that there is a stimulus triggering a reaction in X physiological system. But, that doesn't mean you can't train specificity.

Disregarding psychological and neurological aspects (both huge factors in endurance sports, and all sports), you can still do some work to best reach the physiological state that you expect the body to be in. Since a lot of what we're talking about are energy systems, the goal with specificity in this regard is simulate the state your body is in during the last x distance, and hopefully provide stimulus for your body to train whatever energy systems are involved.

Since a fresh body going into a sprint isn't going to be identical to a body on a significant aerobic deficit going into a sprint (for example), there is likely to be at least some difference in the stimulus provided by the workout.

Let it Rupp wrote:

You can definitely simulate last portions of a race in practice by running longer reps to get tired then pushing the last X-distance that you're trying to work on.

For example, in order to improve our kicks in the 800, my hs coach had us do 4 x 1k with the first 800 in around 3k pace, then the last 200 trying to hit 800 pace. I find these types of workouts to be helpful and build confidence and they definitely feel like the end of a race, but should be done sparingly.

Alternately, go out faster than your rep pace, get back to pace then do surges/fast finishes. Do less reps and or longer intervals , of course.

I think he is asking for a scientific answer. I do think it may help by running workouts like this, but physiologically I am unsure if this is possible.

trackislife12 wrote:

I think he is asking for a scientific answer. I do think it may help by running workouts like this, but physiologically I am unsure if this is possible.

I think the main question would be in as far as actual training goes would be: What are the differences in physiological mechanisms your body employs between running 800m as fast as you can versus running 800m all out as fast as you can after having just run 4200 meters. And if so, is there specific training that can be employed to target that mechanism?

I feel like when worded that way, it seems like it's possible that there's a physiological basis for it, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to say.

Thanks for the serious answers. Yes, I get the neurological part and race simulation, but I just was wondering out loud if your body cares. Running on pre stressed legs or whatever, is just getting them closer to anaerobic state or whatever you are doing that day. I just wonder if its all the same physio wise. You hear the announcers for trials (or maybe it was NCAA's) really buying into all this specificity.

You can train the last 200 of an 800 by doing lactic clearance workouts such as n x 400 at 800 m. pace with full recovery. Some of the toughest workouts you can do and trains for a very specific part of the race when your body needs to clear a buildup of waste products as efficiently as possible.

I didn't really do these workouts for the 1500, but I suppose they could work for the last 100-150.

If you do a split 400 as 250+150 with 60 seconds rest, and push the 250 past 400 pace, then the 150 will be a lactate disaster. Do it a couple more times over the next few weeks and you can take at least a second off the 150 and feel a lot better also.

I guess I will add one more thing. The 800 is where aerobic and anaerobic energy production meet. I would guess more than any other race the ratio of aerobic to anaerobic usage is inversely proportional, with the ratio going steadily in favor of anaerobic somewhere around 400 in and going from there.

If you want to train the last 400 of an 800 the training will train every level with particular emphasis on each as appropriate (speed endurance, aka mile pace type stuff, is another important one here). You can certainly structure workouts to train this, and even do multi-pace workouts to accomplish this if you want to (though I preferred it when we would be more specific in a particular workout and then go specific for another energy system on the next workout). I hope that answers your question. I think the 800 is probably the most complex even to get right as far as training goes among mid distance events.

Physiologically it’s about your muscles being able to produce force while already under extreme fatigue.

So there’s basically two aspects to this.

1. The speed

2. The fatigue

You can train each separately...

For the speed side think of your high school kids that are 400 guys that run the 4x8. Assuming they pace the race correctly, you’ll see a lot of big kicks from these kids because running a 28 last 200 is very slow for someone who has probably ran 22-23.

On the other side of things you hear a lot of coaches say that to be able to kick at the end of a race you have to be fresh enough to reach close to your sprint speed.

For example I think Cheptegei only managed a 59 last 400 in his 5k WR. 12:35 pace is something like 60.x

So obviously he didn’t have much left compared to someone like Mo Farah closing a 13:1x race in 52.

So to train the speed you work on 800 and faster pace stuff.

To train against fatigue you do your normal intervals and whatnot, most importantly long repeats at race pace.

Then when you are ready, and this is only done in the last 4ish weeks before your peak race, you add fast reps to the end of a workout.

For example for a miler you might do 3x800 at mile pace, then run a 300 at close to 400 pace. You should go as fast as you can without compromising form.