byron evans wrote:
Hi.
Do you know there are detectable levels of nandrolone between 0.00 and 1.99ng/ml and those won't be disclosed?
Thanks for your time.
How to not answer while pretending you are saying something
byron evans wrote:
Hi.
Do you know there are detectable levels of nandrolone between 0.00 and 1.99ng/ml and those won't be disclosed?
Thanks for your time.
How to not answer while pretending you are saying something
That's the entire point of microdosing and self-testing.
People keep quoting the limit of 2 ng but thats for men. The limit is 5 for women. I would really like to know if her other tests were like 4.5 or 0. That would be the most telling piece of evidence. If all her other tests were 0, her story could maybe be believable. If other tests were just under the legal limit, he story would be obvious BS
fisky wrote:
Interesting article.
I tend to doubt everything I hear or read anymore so I don't know what to make of Shelby's situation.
It seems to me that the most likely scenario, in this case, would be an injection of a legal substance (B12, for example) or an illegal substance that was laced with nandrolone. These injections could be ongoing, but only that one vial was corrupted.
What's your opinion of that theory?
Or, is microdosing the most likely scenario? Perhaps with one vial containing higher levels of nandrolone than labeled.
Or is she innocent? I don't see that as realistic, but I don't have a grasp of the intricacies of doping.
If she was microdosing I don't think she wouid have gotten caught. According to this article, athletes can now microdose steroids in-competition and not get caught! So, if she microdosed OOC right at 11:00 pm the earliest she could have been tested wouid be 8:00 am the next day. And if Olympic athletes can now dope right before competition and tested negative at the conclusion of the event, then microdosing steroids OOC should be a no brainer for dopers:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/doping-cheating-winter-olympics-microdosing-testosterone-steroids-2018-2%3famp"Estimates suggest that between a third and nearly half of elite athletes use steroids or other drugs to boost their performance, according to a January study commissioned by the World Anti-Doping Agency, or WADA."
"It’s like taking candy from a baby. That's how easy it is for smart chemists and advisers to circumvent WADA testing," Victor Conte, the controversial supplement maker who served jail time for his role in a 2003 doping scandal, told The Guardian."
"The problem may be getting worse, thanks to a new doping strategy. Microdosing may allow athletes to give themselves a perfectly timed boost that cannot be detected with current testing. The method capitalizes on the same doping schemes that athletes have been using for years, but involves a very small dose of a steroid — which stays in the system just long enough to give an extra advantage during an event. By the time an athlete reaches the finish line, the drugs are no longer present."
The Unkle wrote:
byron evans wrote:
Hi.
Do you know there are detectable levels of nandrolone between 0.00 and 1.99ng/ml and those won't be disclosed?
Thanks for your time.
How to not answer while pretending you are saying something
He said she has never tested positive. Nobody knows that. Only that she didn't exceed the threshold. She could have been riding 1.99ng/ml for two years from her addiction to authentic Mexican food trucks and very, very greasy burritos and nobody would know.
How many East Germans passed drug tests from 1968 through 1989 despite the systematic doping of a very large percentage of their athletes, some without the knowledge or consent of the athlete? There is a reason why Ben Johnson's positive in 1988 was so big. Few people tested positive at that time, whether they were from East Germany, the United States, the Soviet Union, China, or anywhere else. Beating tests has been going on a LONG time.
gohabsgo wrote:
Previously in U.S. military wrote:
I was previously in U.S. military. Taboo were recreational drugs. Guys on roids took urinalysis for years with no issue. All it took was one steroid junky to act a fool while suffering roid rage. I theorize not all urine samples are tested every time urine samples are collected. Do not twist yourself into a pretzel wondering why they gave Shelby Houlihan a pass in previous years. We know December, 2020 Houlihan was asked for a urine sample and urine sample was tested. We know Houlihan tested positive 250% more than allowable level of steroids. Do not fret about office politics. Poster, you are worrying why they did not bust Houlihan in previous years. All you need to know: December, 2020 Houlihan was in the cross-hairs and they got her. Case closed.
The military tests for roids?
Not usually.
Whoops! Just remembered to check back here after my long run.
Appreciate some of the quality replies as I am still trying to figure out which side to believe.
The only thing I can add at this point is people keep comparing to athletes of years and years ago who got away with it forever, that's not really a good comparison?
While modern WADA/USADA is no "CSI Miami" and it's not like they are going to catch everything and magically zoom into bad behavior, they have radically improved testing, not just from 1990s and 2000s but even since 2010, they funded/built that archive for the Olympics to keep samples for retesting, biological passport improvements, etc.
Even that BBC article is 6 years old, I sure hope they have improved things over six years.
I mean what is the threat going to be if they can't catch someone until FIFTY tests - hey we may not get you the first year or the second year or the third or the fourth but by golly the fifth year, we'll get you then? Maybe not the first test or tenth or twentieth or 30-40 but by golly 50+ tests you'll be caught? Really?
Sifan Hassan was on a WADA watchlist for years before NOP, supposedly they didn't detect anything but she broke biological passport. Was Shelby on a similar watchlist? Shouldn't the public be allowed to know that if it's the case or not?
Would Bolt have been caught with more testing? Modern testing? Everyone around him was busted, no really, literally everyone, athletes and coaches and managers, good writeup here:
https://tomnew.medium.com/usain-bolt-lance-armstrong-and-the-duck-test-303b7b891e7e
Maybe the Russians "borrowed" the food cart for the day and hence the dirty burrito!
Dwightarm wrote:
Aragon wrote:
It looks as if intramuscular injection releases the hormone slowly (and even sporadically in some cases) leading to the longer detection window when the "depot" in the muscle releases trace amounts up to a year after a single steroid shot.
But it the hormone is taken orally or directly into the vein, there is no muscular depot, and the half-life is short. Correspondingly when the hormone is once gone, it is gone forever.
Orally is an extremely ineffective route to absorb the drug, as well. It takes quite a lot of nandrolone orally to make a difference.
You’re better off injecting a very minuscule amount that keeps you under 2 (Shelby got popped for 5.)
What are your credentials for making such a statement.
We don't know what happened, so it's all just guesses. The most credible excuse would've been that it inadvertently got into one of her legal supplements, but you have to assume BTC looked into that and came up with nothing, or they wouldn't have gone with pig meat.
Other thoughts: athletes often use masking agents like diuretics or other hormones, which themselves are banned for that reason. She could have mistimed her masking agent and peed hotter than expected. Using some other drug that got contaminated with nandrolone in a sketchy lab also makes sense.
Athletes often do a serious stack of PEDs, so the role of a single drug in the stack would be hard to parse without the larger context. That said, nandrolone has a long history in athletics, including a number of previously caught distance runnners.
Ho Hum wrote:
The most credible excuse would've been that it inadvertently got into one of her legal supplements, but you have to assume BTC looked into that.
I wouldn't assume that at all since BTC knows exactly where the nandrolone came from.
Incorrect. The limit for women was revised down 5 to 2 years ago. I trust Victor Conte on doping and he says a bad batch of drugs that has trace quantities of Nandrolone is many athletes’ downfall.
that is all wrote:
What are your credentials for making such a statement.
Not a professional but a former steroid user with extensive research/discussions into anabolics and what constitutes most effective cycling.
I love all the arguments and even her lawyers argument that “there is no way shelby was taking oral nandrolone because it is not effective when taken orally, and only a moron would do that”. Wait who every said Shelby was smart. Plenty of criminals are dumb, that’s why they get caught. She could very well be just a dumb doper. Aka why she got caught and made up the the absurd burrito story.
One problem remains in the generous thresholds (that haven't changed since 2009). For example, you don't even get flagged after a 200 mL blood tranfusion or its EPO equivalent. Or at 1.9 ng/mL of nandrolone.
The second problem remains in the corrupt NADOs. Everyone knows about RUSADA, but USADA and ADAK for example also have a history of giving athletes illegal warning calls ahead of tests, so they can go somewhat safely above the limits, because then they'd start masking or diluting once called (or go shopping or overhear the doorbell if they are way above the limit).
That may be how Shelby was caught. If she was sure to get a warning call from USADA, she probably felt safe with her 5 ng/mL.
Further, some NADOs do regular ooc tests (with or even without warning calls), which gave an advantage to say the Jamaicans 10 years ago.
Yes, really. The stats show that most dopers do never get caught, actually. That isn't exactly news.
Two funniest defenses from the #freeshelby types:
1. She can't be guilty now, because she was never found guilty before.
2. A guilty person would never allow themselves to be tested.