Easy Interval Method

Yes35 wrote:

Klaas,

Where in the research paper you citied in your book they compared easy intervals to steady runs? No need to answer because anyone can read the main research and see it has nothing to do with your method :)

The comparison indeed is between 400m intervals around race pace, and tempo runs. You are right in that.

But what I tried to make clear in my book is that when 400m interval training already gives better results than tempo runs, then the benefit of 400m interval training compared to easy runs is even greater (this is what I mean in the last sentence in that paragraph on page 42, English version). Hence, my message is: do less long runs (slow, moderate, fast) and more interval training and get a better balance in your schedule: not with mainly taxing anaerobic interval training but with a lot of easy interval training.

Yes35 wrote:

Klaas,

For Kirui, you've been called out before on the Verhuel method thread. People questioned the link to Piet. There are so many articles online where Kirui was interviewed and mention to your method. In fact it was clear evidence that his success came from Canova.

I'm sorry but between what you say and what Canova says. Who do you think people will believe? ;)

Yes35, With all respect, but can you give me an interview with Canova in which Canova explicitly said: Since year 20xx up to year 20yy I wrote the schedules for Geoffrey Kirui? Did you ask Canova? Or is it a product of interpretation of reporters?

Well, I asked Piet de Peuter:

I chatted with Piet last week, and he said:

“Geoffrey has never trained on schedules of Canova, these were way to heavy for him. I made the schedules (nowadays Geoffrey more or less knows already by himself how to train, although he requested to help with his preparation for his next Boston marathon) and I was there when he was performing the sessions”.

(Kirui only did a few sessions in Iten (like a fast ~40km), together with runners of Canova. Later, in Boston, Canova was interviewed and talked about the training of Kirui.)

Working in collaboration with Dutch coach Piet de Peuter the Kenyan athlete draws up much of his own training program. He also links up with top Italian coach Renato Canova in Iten for the occasional “speed session” and according to his manager Valentijn Trouw he “listens carefully to his body” and manages his training load accordingly.

Klaas Lok wrote:

nowadays Geoffrey more or less knows already by himself how to train

It amazes me how much credit American fans give to coaches. Surely after a few seasons being competitive, most athletes should know what to do and when, and are able to experiment within the confines of that? The idea that a mature athlete like Kirui should require constant hand-holding from any coach seems crazy.

To me, it feels like most coaching at an elite level is really about knowing the athlete and helping them maintain a consistent trajectory. It's notable how many european athletes are coached by their parents - Jake Whightman and Calum Hawkins for example. Really makes me think that with the elites, it's less about the workouts and more about trust and knowing each other.

Klaas,

Check the "tempo runs-useless" thread.

Canova said:

"

I gave the program in 2011-2012 to the teacher of Geoffrey, Charles Ngeno, when Kirui ran 26'55" in 10000m. After Abel Kirui won Chicago in 2016, Geoffrey Kirui started to train with me directly, coming from Keringet to Iten several time, and I went from Iten to Keringet many times. During this period, Piet continued to take care of Geoffrey, following him when we were not together, according to my plan. This collaboration lasted till World Championships, including the victory in Boston 2017, when in Boston I clearly said, during an interview, that Geoffrey was one of the best talents for marathon, but, because his "low mileage" (160 km per week), NEVER could reach his potential (something that clearly happened)

".

Happy to find this thread, I've recently purchased Klaas' book and did 3 workouts (twice 5x1000, 10x400) plus a trail run last week. So I'm getting into the meat of it this week with:

Recent performances: 16:50 5k, 4:20 (downhill) road mile

M 12x200 on the track, avg 34 w/ 65-75" 200m rec

T 5x1000 on the road, avg 338 w/ similar time 800m rec (too fast on rec)

planned rest of week:

W 10x400, possibly uphill

R rest

F 5-6x1000

S 15k hilly

S 6x1000

My goal race is a relay in September where I will run about 30k in three legs over 24 hours with 600m total of climbing. I think the HM schedule is probably the best to model for this - but wondering if anyone has suggestions for specific preparation for the climbing I will have in the relay. I don't have many 1000m steady hills around (max 30m gain) but there are some shorter 400m ones, so I was thinking of doing 10x400 up/down that.

Cheers

I'd think getting those 15k hilly runs in weekly would be "enough", depending on the profile of the race and the profile of your hilly runs. - I feel 400m hill repeats prepare a person great for anaerobic power events, but don't translate as well to say hilly 10k or half marathon race. If you have any serious single long climbs in the race and none to train on, I'd recommend jumping in a gym for a workout or two on an inclined treadmill. I'd think just a couple sustained incline runs can make a huge difference - seen people do very well in the mount washington race on "flat" half marathon training and just a few long hill climbs in their training - sort of like just having 2 or 3 twenty plus milers before a marathon being "enough" to not bonk.

Klaas

Just finished the book. Enjoyed it very much. Much of what you wrote in the book hit home with me. Over the last few years my philosophy has gone from lots of easy volume running with twice weekly tough sessions to a more balanced daily approach.

I have many questions, but will limit it to just one area for now.

Why the need to add steady state morning runs to your schedule? Why didn't you just add more reps to your easy interval sessions? Why limit your sessions to 15 x 200 or 10 x 400 or 6 x 1k or 5 x 2k?

adad wrote:

I'd think getting those 15k hilly runs in weekly would be "enough", depending on the profile of the race and the profile of your hilly runs. - I feel 400m hill repeats prepare a person great for anaerobic power events, but don't translate as well to say hilly 10k or half marathon race. If you have any serious single long climbs in the race and none to train on, I'd recommend jumping in a gym for a workout or two on an inclined treadmill. I'd think just a couple sustained incline runs can make a huge difference - seen people do very well in the mount washington race on "flat" half marathon training and just a few long hill climbs in their training - sort of like just having 2 or 3 twenty plus milers before a marathon being "enough" to not bonk.

Good points - I would still run the 400m at the prescribed effort in Klaas' book (10kish) and try to avoid anaerobic state, but I am looking at longer climbs like 800' in 2 miles, so treadmill replication of that is probably a better idea.

In the past I've used a short off-road circuit that contains a climb and descent, together with a false flat at the top and flat section at the bottom, and I've replicated the 6x1km session as a fartlek, going 6x4mins with 3min recovery. As I was training more for endurance than speed, I ran it more like a fartlek than an interval session, so cruising the recoveries rather than doing any walking.

I always think it's the descents and the transition from downhill to uphill etc that gets me in races, more than the climbs themselves, so a loop works well.

I have an idea:

The 200m easy intervals are run at around vVo2max and the 400m intervals @10k pace.

It makes possibly sense to introduce/invent the 300m @5k pace.

Something like 12x300m, 300m rec. (not mentioned in the book).

That could bring an interesting stimulus in between ...

Wooow! This is hard stuff Klaas!! Just golden!If Piet tells the truth, which I believe, Canova takes credit from another coach`s work ! Do you have a comment on this mr Canova?

Yes35 wrote:

Canova said:

"

I gave the program in 2011-2012 to the teacher of Geoffrey, Charles Ngeno, when Kirui ran 26'55" in 10000m. After Abel Kirui ....

".

He provided a program, but it is not mentioned that the coach or athlete used it. You can also send a programm to Charles Ngeno :) It is just clever written.

lexel wrote:

Yes35 wrote:

Canova said:

"

I gave the program in 2011-2012 to the teacher of Geoffrey, Charles Ngeno, when Kirui ran 26'55" in 10000m. After Abel Kirui ....

".

He provided a program, but it is not mentioned that the coach or athlete used it. You can also send a programm to Charles Ngeno :) It is just clever written.

Good point! And I remember some of the "duals" between coach JS and Canova here at LRC where Canova tells JS it's absolutely impossible to coach a Kenyan top runner by sending programs, lol !

Klaas Lok wrote:

When, for eg, as a middle distance runner you perform 2 easy runs a week, it might be recovery for your anaerobic system, but meanwhile you are untraining your running economy. I don't see that as recovery, I do see it as a wasted training session

This is a great insight! As a 400/800m runner, I want to be economical at race pace, not my recovery pace.

I've ordered your book, but could you comment on the following workout? I've had three surgeries in the past 8 months so I'm attempting a comeback. Background: M73. 15 miles/week, all on track or hilly trails. Four M70 world record relays since turning 70. (indoor 4x400m and 4x800m, and the outdoor 4x800m twice) Before injuries and surgeries, I could run 400 in 1:07 and 800 in the low 2:40s. Realistically, I may never hit those times again, but I'd like to try.

One of my staple workouts is 2 sets of 12x30 seconds at mile race pace followed by 30 seconds at half that pace. To track progress, I look at the distance covered in the 12 minutes and my overall average HR. Last summer, I improved from 2140m to 2360m with no change in average HR. What do you think of this workout? How would you change it?

fisky wrote:

Klaas Lok wrote:

When, for eg, as a middle distance runner you perform 2 easy runs a week, it might be recovery for your anaerobic system, but meanwhile you are untraining your running economy. I don't see that as recovery, I do see it as a wasted training session

This is a great insight! As a 400/800m runner, I want to be economical at race pace, not my recovery pace.

...

I agree, and it makes sense to me also. Never really understood the concept of 'recovery runs'. It's like a weight lifter doing recovery lifts after arm day, err no. You stress a system, let the body recovery on its own, then stress it again. 'Easy' regular intervals with sufficient rest seems to address this quite well.

Jan Stensson, first of all, if you are going to attack Renato on a serious training thread, please do so under your registered handle. Not under different handles, like the coward you are.

Then, you never had any "duels" (not duals) with Canova. Every time you two had a dialogue he totally schooled you.

And last, Renato NEVER said it was "absolutely impossible to coach a Kenyan top runner by sending programs."

He said that you could never coach an elite (Kenyan) athlete as well by ONLY sending online programs, as you can by AT LEAST WITH SOME FREQUENCY meeting up with them.

So, as usual, you are just a coward and a liar.

Klaas mentions the article as saying this:

"R is for resourcefulness, a quality shown by Geoffrey when it comes to his training programme. Working in collaboration with Dutch coach Piet de Peuter the Kenyan athlete draws up much of his own training programme. He also links up with top Italian coach Renato Canova in Iten for the occasional “speed session” and according to his manager Valentijn Trouw he “listens carefully to his body” and manages his training load accordingly."

You are just a jealous coward trying to denigrate a successful and competent coach.

AndySmith wrote:

In the past I've used a short off-road circuit that contains a climb and descent, together with a false flat at the top and flat section at the bottom, and I've replicated the 6x1km session as a fartlek, going 6x4mins with 3min recovery. As I was training more for endurance than speed, I ran it more like a fartlek than an interval session, so cruising the recoveries rather than doing any walking.

I always think it's the descents and the transition from downhill to uphill etc that gets me in races, more than the climbs themselves, so a loop works well.

I guess your short off-road circuit is very good, and fits perfect and is a valuable idea.

What some people maybe underestimate is that running downhill is a very good muscle training for the anterior thigh muscle. So running such a round trains your muscles uphill and downhill which is very good. For that scenario i have the trail run with friends on Sunday. It gaves me a weekly reset, compared to running on the streets.

lexel wrote:

This week (12. July. 21) plan: relief week

Mo: rest

Tu: 10 x 400m, 400m recov. interval

We: 6 x 1000m, 800m rec interval

Th: rest

Fr: 15 x 200m, 200m rest interval (Track)

Sa: long run, 19km: 6 x 1400m, 1000m rec interval + 1 x 1000m

Su: Trail run (12-15km, around 400hm)

Week is over. Sunday was replaced by a moderate run 11km long (incl. warm-up and cool down).

Total: 6h, 62km

After 4 weeks of applying EIM, i see the biggest improvement in running economy at 200m, followed by 400m and only marginal at 1000m interval speed.

Also i see that the 1000m intervals seems to be no big deal any more. Almost after every run i feel the harmstrings and gluteus muscle in the evening. The body adjusts.

So far a very interesting experience.

Hi Fisky,

I searched for your title "200 tips... etc", found it on Amazon and learned you are Grady Cash, top masters runner with a lot of running experience! Very interesting, book, I am going to order it!

About your question: when injury free and having several weeks of good running sessions under your belt, it sounds like a great workout: it is like an easy interval workout, without the walking rests, and a not so heavy test of your progress at the same time.

Kind regards, Klaas