How do I explain to my female friend that Capitalism is not to blame for why she has to go to work each day?

Europes system does not work well. US GDP growth has exceeded European GDP growth every year since 2010 except for 2011 and 2017. Not to mention some negative years for the EU in 2012-13. This is with the depressed US growth of the past 15 years as the government and FED has gotten more involved. Do not mistake crony capitalism and the current market manipulations with free market Capitalism. The US economy is a shell of its former self but it is far more Dynamic that Europe's.

The exporting of manufacturing is a long term issue but the idea that we could not build those things is nonsense.

I agree the corporate welfare Elon has gotten is not good, he should be forced to be profitable or raise capital through the marketplace and not the government. The point is that it is people working for their own profit that drive technological innovation and not government spending. Biden can spend god knows how many trillions on "infrastructure" and it will be near worthless. In fact, it will steal resources from the productive economy that could be better utilized. Those resources would be far better spent in the productive economy than a top-down central planned economic approach.

Thursdayeveningmarxist wrote:

burnin' down the house wrote:

You do realize that the US used to build all sorts of stuff, right? The US was a leader in 'building stuff'.

The US was and still is leading in building military stuff. That's right.

Other than that what are they building anymore? Crappy Trucks and SUVs maybe.

The US is not producing any decent products since the 90ies. Pretty much everything is made in China and yes that includes all Apple Products as well.

So, what's your point?

A lot of women are still wired in their brains that they dont want to work a real job due to their female ancestors not being bound by any expectations of working to make money. The most that was expected was to exclusively cook, clean, care for the kids. That's it. The husband would bust his but all day working to support the whole family. So now you see all these women selling their bodies essentially in some form (there's many options) for money.

Waitforit4 wrote:

I have a couple female friends in their 30s like this. They low key want to be traditional stay at house wives, but can't (most can't find a guy that wants to date them due to all the options out there) so they rage at capitalism. It's sad really.

This is precisely my observation. These types tend to be feminists too, ironically. I had already noticed this but wanted to wait and see if anyone else had also before stating my observations/thoughts. I think they are very confused because they don't want to work and want to be taken care of, but they've been sort of brainwashed into thinking being a stay at home wife or mother is bad, so they just supplant government for husband.

I have actually had a conversation with my friend on this topic, and she ended up essentially saying that anyone who makes more than her should give her money, but she should not have to give any of her money to anyone who makes less than her. I found it pretty amazing. I can't expand on what the thoughts are of the other women I've seen post things on this subject as I've never talked to them about it.

Also, thought I would clarify, "5 days per week" are my words. My friend didn't say that specifically, just that she blames capitalism for having to work. She also said to me that we should redo the economic system so people get paid whether they work or not. Again, I found it pretty amazing.

GDP is not a great measurement.

You need to look at how the average populations is doing. And it's not that great in the US.

And the US infrastructure is in it's worst state ever. Dams and bridges are crumbling. Pot holes are getting more and bigger. Power grids are failing. There are a LOT of problems.

Whop wrote:

Waitforit4 wrote:

I have a couple female friends in their 30s like this. They low key want to be traditional stay at house wives, but can't (most can't find a guy that wants to date them due to all the options out there) so they rage at capitalism. It's sad really.

This is precisely my observation. These types tend to be feminists too, ironically. I had already noticed this but wanted to wait and see if anyone else had also before stating my observations/thoughts. I think they are very confused because they don't want to work and want to be taken care of, but they've been sort of brainwashed into thinking being a stay at home wife or mother is bad, so they just supplant government for husband.

You don't think it might be because most people want to have children and raise them but need to be compensated (financially) for the time off work spent doing this? The 'career woman' stereotype was always a middle class obsession - women have always worked, it wasn't about working but about being paid.

It takes you until your 30s to realize how tough life is at this point of history. Fewer people have significant wealth or stability to start a family in their 20s - just a few years after HS or college. You don't get paid for house work - surviving on just one income isn't happening.

Whop wrote:

i know this one wrote:

A women-bashing post on Letsrun? I’m shocked.

The point was not to bash women. I only mentioned the genders because I've seen probably 10 or so women post something along these lines but have never seen or heard a man say such things, which I find significant and worth thinking about.

Apparently women are more likely than men to be left-wing. But I think in my experience I've seen this view expressed by more men than women. In other words more political engaged people seem to be men. Politics is male dominated at the high levels (Senate, Congress, mayors, governors) but I think it's more male dominated in society generally (e.g. if you picture a group of students talking about politics, are they men or women? If you think of a random caller to any political radio or TV show is it a man or a woman? Why is there the stereotype of your uncle with the questionable political views? Maybe women care about politics as much as men, but just don't try to force their views on others as much)

Back to the question, do you think she meant capitalism is the reason she has to work at all, or why she has to do a specific amount of work? It would probably be feasible to have a 4 day week instead of 5. It would probably be possible for a lot of parents not to work under a slightly different system (more women used to quit their jobs when they got married, though this was under capitalism too, so arguably it's not even capitalism, but certain forms of capitalism, which have impelled them to got jobs).

If she doesn't want to work, she's free to live on the streets of some liberal, Westcoast U.S. city like LA, San Fran, Portland, etc where the government will take care of you. That's what "no work" gets you.

Lol I bet you use the same logic to every other aspect of social construct based victimhood you choose to adhere. As far as being forced to have to work how many hours per week or starve. You could easily set a budget and based on your skills stop work once the amount is reached. Plenty of part time positions every where. Just work enough to purchase what your basic needs are and keep all the free time you want. No one will hold a gun to your head and have you work.

Tell your friend that in every society that has ever existed the vast vast majority of people have had to work and often harder, longer and for a worse quality of life than we work for now.

She, like myself and 99% of able adults bodied individuals, are unfortunately part of that vast majority of working folks.

Also, to make her feel better, tell her that the individuals who don’t have to go to work everyday due to some inheritance are often no happier than the stiff that works 40-50 hours a week.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Tell your friend that in every society that has ever existed the vast vast majority of people have had to work and often harder, longer and for a worse quality of life than we work for now.

She, like myself and 99% of able adults bodied individuals, are unfortunately part of that vast majority of working folks.

Also, to make her feel better, tell her that the individuals who don’t have to go to work everyday due to some inheritance are often no happier than the stiff that works 40-50 hours a week.

I mostly agree with this expect for the fact one most work 40 hours a week.

Regardless, somebody needs to explain to me how we have a society where nobody is working. Marxist, socialist, tribal, etc there has to be workers or the society will quickly fall apart. Now, maybe we can do things like raise minimum wage, limit working hours, etc but until machines are able to do every single job for us, including repair and make more machines, there will always be workers and some of the jobs these workers are doing don’t be “fun” or “creative”. We can’t all be William Shakespeare.

It’s been since December 2019 since I had someone besides myself work for my company. Most were taking double unemployment and are still living off government money.

The only people that apply are ex-cons, druggies, and illegals that only want to be paid in cash.

We don’t live in a capitalist government here in the US anymore.

Whop wrote:

I've seen several women post such things on social media, but I also have a personal friend who thinks "capitalism" is to blame for why she has to work 5 days per week. I'm kind of dumbfounded as to how to explain to her that people doing work is what allows there to be food at the store, electricity, gas at the gas station, etc... Kind of feels like I'm a daddy explaining to his 5 year old why adults go to work each day. My friend is 32 years old and college educated. :/

What would you say?

Capitalism favors White Privilege (well and the NBA and NFL) . But basically it's evil and eventually a failure according to the leading science minds.

If by countries less capitalistic than our own you include the Marxists wonderland of China a quick Google search will provide you with a reality you don't want to face.

Here you go....

"I worked for some factories in Dongguan manufacturing electronics and accessories. It was a medium size enterprise. So it wouldn’t face the type of scrutiny a large company like Foxconn — but it’s not like this was some sweatshop off the official grid. It was a legitimate place — and I saw the authorities visit a few times to check work documents and procedures.

A typical day went something like this:

8:00AM - Breakfast / Get ready for work

9:00AM - 12:00PM - Work

12:00PM - 2:00PM - Lunch and Rest

2:00PM - 6:00PM - Work

6:00PM - 7:00PM - Dinner

7:00PM - 9:00/10:00 PM - Work

So the “work day” exceeds twelve hours — however its worth remembering most people live on site at the factory — and they take considerable breaks. During such breaks employees could return to their dorms and do whatever they wanted to.

So, overall, the average “working hours” would be 9 or 10 hours per day.

How mutch does a Chinese factory worker earn per hour?

How many hours are considered a normal work week in China?

Do Chinese people really work 997, meaning from 9 AM to 9 PM, 7 days a week?

What is the average number of hours per week that a factory worker in China works?

How many hours does the average Chinese work per week?

I am working at a BMW factory. The assembly line workers work here on two shifts. The first starts at 6 am and ends around 3 pm. There's one 45 minutes lunch break. The afternoon shift is from around 3pm till midnight, sometimes 1am, with one 45 minutes break as well. When the factory has to catch up with the production plan or a longer holiday is coming, then the hours are little bit longer. If it's about the weekends, 50% of the time they work at least the morning shift, sometimes the whole Saturday. I am not sure if the weekend work counts as overtime but probably yes. Besides the official

It depends.

Many factories have lots of order forms, so the production lines keep operating. Workers are asked to work 12 hours a day.

Workers that work 12 hours a day earn much higher salary. It can reach more than 6000 yuan/month which is 900 dollars a month.

I am working in a Vehicle Assembly Shop in North China. It is very hard to evaluate the average working hours. But I can describe the states of person around me:

For Normal Workers. The normal workers, I mean, the workers working on the line, work on 2 shifts per day, morning shift and night shift. The morning shifts begin at 8:30 AM and end at 5:00 pm, and the night shifts begin at 5:00 PM and ends at 1:00 AM the next day. In every shift, they is a break for meal, about half an hour. If the production plan is not completed, there would be an overtime, 2 hours usually, depending on the actual b Sweeping Day )

May Day : 1 day ( also called International Labor Day)

Dragon Boat Festival : 1 day

Mid-Autumn Day : 1 day

Oct.-01 National Day : 5 days ( total 16 days)

Could you picture Americans ever adopting this?

100 years ago this was the kind of thing Americans did. Germans did it too, and so did the Japanese and Koreans. It is quite common of rapidly developing economies with a low value from the leisure sector.

Today, American and German societies place a higher value on personal time than they did in the past. To different extents, they’ve implemented legal protections, but these are more a reflection of the cultural value placed on this. "

There you go your Chinese socialists brother believes you are weak and pathetic for wanting to work less than 40h week.

I'm not trying to tick you off, but you're not thinking very hard. Whether people work 35hrs/week or 45hrs/week doesn't necessarily have much of anything to do with whether a nation is more capitalistic or socialist. According to a quick google search, the US ranks 10th in the world for highest average hours of work per week. There are countries with different economic systems both higher and lower than the US.

Also, the key point of capitalism is that the market decides, ie individuals (collectively). We have, as individuals, collectively decided that 40hrs/week should be full time in the US. If a company wanted to work their employees more than that, they could (and do), and individuals have the choice to work there or somewhere else. Example: I have a friend who works for a big tech company and puts in over 60hrs/week most weeks with several weeks per year over 90. He agrees it is a very high amount of hours, but he also gets paid about $150k/year. He is looking to start a family in the next couple years though and plans to get a different job (or position within the same company) that averages only 40-55hrs/week even though he knows he will likely see his pay cut down to $110k/year.

Your later paragraph implies a deep lack of understanding of how the world works. People could work less, but they'd lose money in the form of actual money or through loss of insurance. Yep. That's how working works. If you work less, you have less money. There's not some magic horn of plenty just waiting to be given to people. If someone works fewer hours, they produce less for their company (and society), so then their employer has less available to give them. One could argue healthcare reform is needed to address insurance problems related to full-time and part-time work, but that's a separate issue.

Capitalism is not the reason she’s gotta work every day, but it is the conditions in which she works in. Hours/week, pay, safety etc

How?

Lie.

You totally made that up to start a thread on what you think some people think.

My guess is that we evolved form a six day week (Sabbath rest) into a five day week because of Sunday church and Saturday Sabbath. The thing people forget is that farmers still work seven days a week.