Why don't 800m runners value speed more?

jumped higher wrote:

Is it Realistic for some who can't run under 46 to break the world record in the 800?You can only improve your endurance but so much.

You are correct. Unless a 46 plus 400m guy takes high dosage of both steroids and EPO, world record from a 46 plus guy is next to impossible. The other question is how can sub-45.5 400m guys become willing to compete as 800m runners?

Are you saying don’t race or train for the 800 until you can a 45 second 400?

If a bunch of people are running sub 46 training for the 800 then a bunch of people are probably training for the wrong event. Running 45 and change is borderline world class. If that person isn’t running 1:43 or better then they should go all in on the 400 and run 44’s

Boling should run the fuc**** 800m trials!

No definitely not, I'm just wondering why do many 800m runners try to increase mileage if they are already running a good amount over tying to get faster.

Though It would be hard to convince them, I do believe some 400m runners should try the 800.If you run 44.75-46 and aren't getting faster you don't have much to lose from at least trying an 800m.The US has plenty of guys like that in the college system maybe 1/20 show true talent in the 800m.

jumped higher wrote:

No definitely not, I'm just wondering why do many 800m runners try to increase mileage if they are already running a good amount over tying to get faster.

Though It would be hard to convince them, I do believe some 400m runners should try the 800.If you run 44.75-46 and aren't getting faster you don't have much to lose from at least trying an 800m.The US has plenty of guys like that in the college system maybe 1/20 show true talent in the 800m.

No.

GnomeBe wrote:

No.

Please elaborate .

jumped higher wrote:

No definitely not, I'm just wondering why do many 800m runners try to increase mileage if they are already running a good amount over tying to get faster.

Though It would be hard to convince them, I do believe some 400m runners should try the 800.If you run 44.75-46 and aren't getting faster you don't have much to lose from at least trying an 800m.The US has plenty of guys like that in the college system maybe 1/20 show true talent in the 800m.

I think you may have a misunderstanding of what these athletes are actually doing in training for example when Rupp was peaking FOR THE 5k he was doing 100m sprints mid to low eleven seconds that’s insane for a 5k dude and if you look at the workout brazier did before his AR it had multiple 100m sprints in the 10.5 range

They run fast to run fast.

That's all.

Speed work for the 800m is a science-based on your 400m performance. 300m/200m/100m

Someone is exaggerating or telling 1/2 truths. No way is Brazier capable of 10.5 F.A.T. Even with rolling starts, I am sure high 10's at best for him. Doing 100s at the end of a hard workout does not necessarily improve raw speed, doing 100s at the end of a hard workout is to train to kick well. Rupp. Really? Rupp in an 800m thread?

I read that article, it made it sound like that isn't somthing he does often.He was training to maintain his speed while building strength not to improve speed.10.5 Fat vs 10.5 ht is different , that's what you would expect from a 46 guy.

A lot easier said than done.

To run sub 46, you need a large fast twitch muscle component, along with specific weight/plyo/drill work that can’t be done alongside appropriate aerobic work. It’s for sure possible to touch on it, but this a can’t have your cake and eat it too situation, for the most part.

From my point of view, a talented 800m runner is someone who can sprint fast naturally, along with being aerobically trainable.

My coach tried to turn a 49 flat guy we had into an 800m runner, brought him out for cross country, the guy couldn’t run more than 20 mpw sustainably and only broke 19:00 once. Ran the 800 a few times that next season and ran around 2:08. The guy was not aerobically gifted. We had a 53 guy do the same training and he was a 17:00 guy in XC and ran 2:00. Both had similar builds and from 400m times alone you’d say 49 guy had better potential, but that’s just not how it works.

I’m sure most 47.x 800m guys that run 50-70 mpw year round could go 45.x if they trained like 400m runners, but they’d lose that speed as soon as they started training like 800m runners again.

All elite 800m runners are very fast 400m runners.

400 is about acceleration, top end speed, and speed endurance.

800 is about speed endurance, speed endurance, and speed endurance.

The other question ... wrote:

lke_4:25 wrote:

I think you may have a misunderstanding of what these athletes are actually doing in training for example when Rupp was peaking FOR THE 5k he was doing 100m sprints mid to low eleven seconds that’s insane for a 5k dude and if you look at the workout brazier did before his AR it had multiple 100m sprints in the 10.5 range

Someone is exaggerating or telling 1/2 truths. No way is Brazier capable of 10.5 F.A.T. Even with rolling starts, I am sure high 10's at best for him. Doing 100s at the end of a hard workout does not necessarily improve raw speed, doing 100s at the end of a hard workout is to train to kick well. Rupp. Really? Rupp in an 800m thread?

First of all in a workout hand timed is always implied. Second you know exactly what I was trying to explain when I brought him up you’re just trying to be difficult for some reason

jumped higher wrote:

No definitely not, I'm just wondering why do many 800m runners try to increase mileage if they are already running a good amount over tying to get faster.

Though It would be hard to convince them, I do believe some 400m runners should try the 800.If you run 44.75-46 and aren't getting faster you don't have much to lose from at least trying an 800m.The US has plenty of guys like that in the college system maybe 1/20 show true talent in the 800m.

To your first point, I ran at a serious 800m school and we didn’t try to increase our mileage.

There was base work in the fall and workouts that got faster and faster as the season progressed.

Same training formula for a 1:43 runner as a 1:50 runner.

I ran 1:49. I was never going to run 1:43.

If I simply worked on my 400 speed, I’d have never cracked 1:55.

We had a couple 1:45 guys and they were simply more talented speed wise than me. There was nothing I could do to match their 400 speed.

And more speed work wasn’t going to get those 1:45 guys to run 1:42.

We are all capped by our talent.

Guys that currently run 44 or 45 have plenty to lose if they move up to the 800.

Maybe they out in a bunch of work and struggle to break 1:50. That’s way worse than 45.

The other question ... wrote:

Unless a 46 plus 400m guy takes high dosage of both steroids and EPO, world record from a 46 plus guy is next to impossible. The other question is how can sub-45.5 400m guys become willing to compete as 800m runners?

Agreed. Let's get rid of the 400 and the 800 (dumb distances, based on conversions from 1/4 and 1/2 mile) and replace with 500m. Start on straight, end on straight, run in lanes.

I know that 400m training requires a very specific regimen, but I think that most 800m runners can do a little to improve their speed and most would benefit from improved speed.

I also realize that their are strength based 800m runners that respond better to high milage 800m training.I believe that the guys who are already preforming well on low milage may respond better to more speed work though.

I don't think that many 400m runner would run a good 400m maybe it would be less than 1/20, but there could be some sub elite 400m specialist that have 800m potential.Rudisha was a fast decathlete before he ran the 800m.

All I meant was ask the 400m guy to time trial a 800m if it's not a good time keep them in the 400m.I was also specifically referring to sprinters who've stagnated at sub elite times not ones who are improving.

I don't think speed work will make a sub elite 800m elite, but I think if you could take a second off your 400m without changing your 800m specific training who could running at least little faster in the 800m.