Are we suspicious of Karissa Schweizer?

jeff tallon wrote:

She had that funny widening jaw thing happening.

She's had that since HS.

That is 8th grade.

Nowayclean wrote:

Former Flanagan fan wrote:

She has taken 126 seconds off her 5,000m time in five years.

For an already trained athlete that is remarkable, it’s 10.08 seconds faster per lap, for all 12.5 laps. Suspicious? Yeah.

As suspicious as J. Norris coming out of nowhere with mediocre times and no national level races, not even ranked, to #1 in the nation in a span of a couple of months dropping her time by 40 seconds from one race tot he next while all previous 5K a year back barely broke 16. Suspicious? Oh yeah.

Norris is less suspicious if you know her background. She spent her first 4 yrs in college with fluke injuries - she stepped in a hole and rolled her ankle badly; she got bitten by a dog on a training run, which led to a couple of imbalance/overuse injuries. Her last year of college she finally got healthy and got down to a 15:28 5k on about 45mpw. She turned pro in 2019 and built to 60-65mpw with more quality, and in 2 yrs has dropped to 14:51.

Her progression isn't nuts; showing big improvement in the first couple years after college is more believable than suddenly going nuts at like 26. We also have to account for the shoes giving some free improvement. But that monster 5k time does give me pause.

instasnap wrote:

Here improvement has been all the charts. 15:11 pr for 5k in Feb 2019 to running 14:26 14 months later...Yea that makes sense.

It does make sense. Most runners could do it if they were laser-focused on building 5k fitness for a year, lived like a monk at altitude most of the time, were fortunate enough not to have any major injuries or setbacks, then, finally, ran in a perfectly paced time trial.

Pause? She is doping. The whole team is/was. Because the whole sport is. I don't blame them at all. An entire generation of very talented American cyclists following in the wake of Lemond ran into the same choice in the early 1990s, a sport where EPO doping was necessary to even survive and have a career. I don't blame a single one of them for the choice they made. I would have made the exact same choice. Because it was that or go home. I still have a image early on of Indurain, on pure EPO rocket fuel, blowing by Armstrong like he was standing still. Armstrong eventually turned the tables in the most sociopathic way possible, which was karma. Right now we have runners that are obviously cheating blowing right by the Ma's army times. It is no more the shoes than there was a live ball during baseball's mass steroid era.

I think this also casts a shadow on the alleged late bloomer narrative, runners who were solid in college (the last vestiges of true sport) but who "magically" start to flourish as pros. There is a reason for it, and it isn't polite.

We are not supposed to call out doping internationally because it supposedly involves "underdog" nations. I guess the only way to start cleaning up the sport will be for a very obnoxious running version of Armstrong to cheat so ruthlessly that it finally registers with the apologists. Pass the burritos.

Yes you should be. BTC will be tested more often now.

Ite ad Joseph wrote:

Yes you should be. BTC will be tested more often now.

I think they have been this year. Curiously, their times haven’t been as good. I don’t think they do well at these trials.

My goodness you people are so damn stupid. It's like you got so badly duped by cycling that you told yourself "never again!" and the pendulum swung way too far. Get out of here with the "everyone is doping" bs. Make friends with some professional runners and you will learn that even the slightest suggestion of doping will make you get kicked out of virtually any training group in the US.

As for Karissa's improvement, it is completely normal and a smaller improvement than many of us have had that have run much faster than 14:30 including myself. Hell even wejo had a bigger improvement post college than she has had.

Big Boy in the NCAA wrote:

That is 8th grade.

Proves my point even further.

Sure. :)

big bopper wrote:

Schweizer is a sweetheart. She would never break a rule. She literally won't drive 56 in a 55 zone.

That's the blonde white girl fallacy. America really needs to get over that sh'it.

People said the same thing about Shelby"hardworking, integrity" until she pissed hot.

And indignant denials about doping prove runners aren't doping? Speaking of stupid. So there's a lot of doping going on in running - in all sports - but it can't be our guys - or gals. (Eh, Shelby?) I wonder how much faster Karissa has to run before her improvement looks a little less "normal"?

Anyone who isn't doping in professional sport must be happy to lose - to those who are.

qs wrote:

Schweizer had already run very fast times in college. She holds the NCAA record for the 3,000 M, faster than Jenny Simpson. Add training on a professional level at altitude and her times as a pro are within reason. (Unless she was doping in College which is not within reason)

All times for a pro are "within reason". That is because the reason is they dope. Especially for a 10sec improvement per lap over 5k.

Nowayclean wrote:

Former Flanagan fan wrote:

She has taken 126 seconds off her 5,000m time in five years.

For an already trained athlete that is remarkable, it’s 10.08 seconds faster per lap, for all 12.5 laps. Suspicious? Yeah.

As suspicious as J. Norris coming out of nowhere with mediocre times and no national level races, not even ranked, to #1 in the nation in a span of a couple of months dropping her time by 40 seconds from one race tot he next while all previous 5K a year back barely broke 16. Suspicious? Oh yeah.

It wasn’t and isn’t and entirely or situation. Both things are true.

Karissa ran 15:01 the summer of her senior year of college in, what, 2018? Not insane that she would drop 35 seconds in 3 years after switching from college training to pro, especially at a program like mizzou where there was no one at her level to train with

its crazy that BTC has transformed so many of these college kids into phenoms in a matter of a few years. Shelby. Courtney. Colleen. Karissa. Even Elise and Vanessa who had mediocre college careers. Bang. They are all the cream of the crop.

Sorry, I loved BTC and I like Jerry and Shalane but I'm just so dang cynical now.

Elle Purrier is the one that I just don't believe tbh. Now that Shelby got popped. It's like, how is she even running that well?

a little bit of history wrote:

Nowayclean wrote:

As suspicious as J. Norris coming out of nowhere with mediocre times and no national level races, not even ranked, to #1 in the nation in a span of a couple of months dropping her time by 40 seconds from one race tot he next while all previous 5K a year back barely broke 16. Suspicious? Oh yeah.

Norris is less suspicious if you know her background. She spent her first 4 yrs in college with fluke injuries - she stepped in a hole and rolled her ankle badly; she got bitten by a dog on a training run, which led to a couple of imbalance/overuse injuries. Her last year of college she finally got healthy and got down to a 15:28 5k on about 45mpw. She turned pro in 2019 and built to 60-65mpw with more quality, and in 2 yrs has dropped to 14:51.

Don't buy it . Her drop in times within a month or 2 is more than suspicious. Better watch those burritos.

Factsandtalent wrote:

People from NJ and those in the Norris circle knew that she always had the talent to be a top distance runner in America. She ran 5:06 for 1600 meters as a tenth grader then gave up basketball and ran 4:41 a year later winning the state 1600 title. Her senior year was riddled with injuries, ruptured plantar at the XC state championships and then a compensation injury derailed her spring season. She went to UNC where she dealt with more injuries and needed a change. She transferred to Georgetown and again dealt with injuries. She finally hit a block of training as a fifth year athlete where she finally proved her potential talent.

This kid is special and when healthy and coached by the right person she is a contender in any race.

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20830896/josette-norris-takes-her-shot-at-track/

Blah Blah Blah - another juicer ranking #1 from nowhere