Why do people believe that the Ingebrigtsens are blood doping when their father has even higher levels of hemoglobin?

New Norweigians with this condition are discovered all the time as they reach testing age, mostly in skiing as it is their national sport number one above all. Here's just one example:

https://fasterskier.com/2006/02/norwegian-coach-innocent-athletes-are-victimized/

Cavorty wrote:

In 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein, chapter 16 details a Finish Olympic x-country skier Eero Mantyranta who had a mutation of chromosome 19 that resulted in an unusually high red blood cell count, as did several of his relatives. From the book, Frode Estil a Norwegian Olympic Gold winning x-country skier had a similar condition.

The book only claims thag Estil had a medical exemption not to be disqualified because of the strict Hb limit (17.5 g/dl, later lowered to 17.0) of the FIS, not that his Hb was exceptionally high even if his count had the risk of been at least occasionally above those limits naturally.

At least a few athletes were close to the limits due to their physiology (Hb level is set on a large part by amount of plasma volume and not by total Hb mass), and the cycling world had also many athletes who were allowed have their Hct's above the 50 % limit due to medical exemption, e.g. Charly Wegelius, Alberto Contador and Jonathan Vaughters.

Five is the magic number wrote:

New Norweigians with this condition are discovered all the time as they reach testing age, mostly in skiing as it is their national sport number one above all. Here's just one example:

https://fasterskier.com/2006/02/norwegian-coach-innocent-athletes-are-victimized/

As Mandy Rice Davies once famously said - "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?"

I have a JAK mutation that caused my hematocrit levels to be above 50, fortunately it has come down to 41 at the last blood test.

My dad's and my brother's hematocrit are also both over 50. Brother is a competitive cyclist and father ran at a major university.

I suspect we all have the same mutation, but neither of them will get tested.

Not sure if this is what is going on with the Norwegian's, but it definitely is real.

Nor-way wrote:

You are so boring. Try something new, this childish "he is doped!" without anything - I said ANYTHING - other than jelousy as proof, is just pathetic. Grow up. Some people are greater athletes than others. Deal with it.

Ingebritsen is now 12th on the all-time list. Anyone on that list is suspicious whether they've done peds or not (it's the world we live in). What would make him any different. Suspicious because he is now ahead of know dopers. Runners like Sidi-Sief (nandrolone), Mohammed Mourhit (EPO), Olympic Gold Medalist Dieter Baumann (nandrolone), Abderrahim Goumri (abnormal blood values), and more (despite being busted, all these runners have official times on the list and Baumann still has a gold medal btw). And these are only the runners that have been caught. He is also the only runner of non-African descent in the top 26.

So, you have to ask yourself - did he just win the genetic lottery and is more talented than any European ever in the history of the sport and, not only that, but just happened to be born into a family overly obsessed with running (hey, what luck!) and his dad likes to get his "hemoglobin count checked" and casually mentions it. Or, could it be reasonable to think, that something more is going on. WADA isn't out testing 16:00 5k runners. They're out testing guys who run the 12th fastest 5k time ever.

The answer is yes; "Leif Inge Tjelta and Eystein Enoksen have tested both the maximum O2 and the threshold speed of the young Sandnes runner. The threshold speed was 15.6 km / h while the maximum oxygen uptake was 68 ml / kg / min. Jakob managed to run at 20 km / h with a 1 percent increase on the mill for a couple of minutes.

- Jakob is very special. It is the first time I see such qualities in such a young, Norwegian athlete, says Leif Inge Tjelta to Aftenposten."

Forgot to include this: "Jakob, the youngest of the Ingebrigtsen brothers, is only 11 years old and ran the 8.2 km long Siddisløpet in 29.56. How is that possible, the researchers ask themselves."

Because they’re jealous

Many on this site were too runners on their high school teams . They thought someday they would be world class Olympian’s. But instead they’re either accountants or live in their parents basement. So they’re angry and spout out DOPER whenever they can. Mostly from this anonymous website that’s viewed as the Jerry Springer trash of the running world.

“Top runners”

Not sure about how an article about him proves that he won the genetic lottery. If you tested anyone in the top 100 on the 5k list it would appear that they had also won the genetic lottery.

fxhjb wrote:

Aaleby wrote:

The answer is yes; "Leif Inge Tjelta and Eystein Enoksen have tested both the maximum O2 and the threshold speed of the young Sandnes runner. The threshold speed was 15.6 km / h while the maximum oxygen uptake was 68 ml / kg / min. Jakob managed to run at 20 km / h with a 1 percent increase on the mill for a couple of minutes.

- Jakob is very special. It is the first time I see such qualities in such a young, Norwegian athlete, says Leif Inge Tjelta to Aftenposten."

https://www.kondis.no/hvordan-kan-en-11-aaring-loepe-saa-fort.5030754-127145.html

Not sure about how an article about him proves that he won the genetic lottery. If you tested anyone in the top 100 on the 5k list it would appear that they had also won the genetic lottery.

Maybe or maybe not. With Jakob you have the lottery ticket black on white. Hes been the special one from the very start. A rare phenomen of such a kind that it got the attention of the scientists at the age of 11. That what makes Jakob unique; the spotlight has followed him for nearly 10 years. Jakob Ingebrigtsen can be seen as an open book compared to his competitors.

Man went Norman Osbourne in original spiderman and tested stuff on himself first, pretty obvious if you ask me.

All top athletes are freaks. But what is being argued is that some are even more "freakish" than that - rather than accept the obvious and more banal conclusion.

So the father is saying he is the cause of his sons' abnormal blood values. That's the first time I have heard the "heredity defence" for suspiciously exaggerated readings. Now, why would he do that, I wonder? I hope WADA is duly impressed.

letsrun rule #1: everyone faster than you is doping

rule #2: everyone slower than you is just lazy

rule #3: the shoes do nothing, it's just magical special new workouts and all that downtime in 2020

The Rules wrote:

letsrun rule #1: everyone faster than you is doping

rule #2: everyone slower than you is just lazy

rule #3: the shoes do nothing, it's just magical special new workouts and all that downtime in 2020

Rule #1: no one is doping

Rule#2: if they are doping it isn't doing them any good

Rule #3: no one I like is doping. It's just the shoes.

FiJa wrote:

Either their father is using epo for no reason or the rest inhereted his genes that increase hemoglobin to the level of dopers.

What better way to cover for his kids?

The Rules wrote:

letsrun rule #1: everyone faster than you is doping

rule #2: everyone slower than you is just lazy

rule #3: the shoes do nothing, it's just magical special new workouts and all that downtime in 2020

Rule #3 is actually the opposite:

No one is fast anymore or can improve naturally. Everything is due to the shoes. Silly.

Aaleby wrote:

Forgot to include this: "Jakob, the youngest of the Ingebrigtsen brothers, is only 11 years old and ran the 8.2 km long Siddisløpet in 29.56. How is that possible, the researchers ask themselves."

I don’t know if it really matters who is doping. If we assume everyone is doping, then there is a level playing field.