Sifan MF Hassan - Runs 29:06.82 10,000 WR!

sderd wrote:

A good human pacemaker is more valuable than wave lights. But of course the good human pacemaker is hard to find.

A good human pacer cannot run 10000m of a 10000m WR attempt. That is the point. The wavelights go the FULL distance.

Hardloper wrote:

` wrote:

Why do you think male pacers are not allowed for women's WRs? Why aren't pacers allowed to hop in halfway through the race? Ridiculous.

Because they break the air resistance, which is significant when you're running 17 km/h

There you go.

` wrote:

sderd wrote:

A good human pacemaker is more valuable than wave lights. But of course the good human pacemaker is hard to find.

A good human pacer cannot run 10000m of a 10000m WR attempt. That is the point. The wavelights go the FULL distance.

So what? The wave lights are offering pacing assistance but the pacemaker who goes 6000m is offering real physiological assistance. Maybe one issue here is some of you could never pace yourselves so you overrate its importance as you were not equipped to do it for yourself.

sderd wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Because they break the air resistance, which is significant when you're running 17 km/h

There you go.

No, as I said before, because they cannot go the FULL distance, or else THEY would have the WR. Even pacing is just as, if not more, important than air resistance. In these stadiums, wind is typically negligible as well.

sderd wrote:

` wrote:

A good human pacer cannot run 10000m of a 10000m WR attempt. That is the point. The wavelights go the FULL distance.

So what? The wave lights are offering pacing assistance but the pacemaker who goes 6000m is offering real physiological assistance. Maybe one issue here is some of you could never pace yourselves so you overrate its importance as you were not equipped to do it for yourself.

It's really quite unnecessary to make ad hominem attacks. Pacemaker + wavelight is a deadly combination. You get the benefit of air resistance for 6000m, and then for the final 4000m you get even pacing, which you no longer have to even think about.

It is an unfair advantage.

Initial post was quoting Obiri, she is African. I argued for similar opportunities for Kiplimo and Kipruto for d 10k and a number of Ethiopians in d 5k, all are African. I fail to see how arguing that more pple shd be given the opportunity to attempt WRs with wavelight pacing somehow discredits African performances. Hassan is Dutch. No one is discrediting her performance. But having an Obiri or Gidey in the race wd make things interesting. Cos then she has to race them too. She either gets beaten or they push her to an even more incredible time. Have u never seen a race where multiple pple went under the previous record?

Again we know the wave light offers an advantage. So what? That was not the debate. Damn...

` wrote:

sderd wrote:

So what? The wave lights are offering pacing assistance but the pacemaker who goes 6000m is offering real physiological assistance. Maybe one issue here is some of you could never pace yourselves so you overrate its importance as you were not equipped to do it for yourself.

It's really quite unnecessary to make ad hominem attacks. Pacemaker + wavelight is a deadly combination. You get the benefit of air resistance for 6000m, and then for the final 4000m you get even pacing, which you no longer have to even think about.

It is an unfair advantage.

+1

If you cannot have human pacers join mid race, you should not be able to have the wavelight all race either and have a sanctioned wr. These are all records in need of an*

sderd wrote:

Again we know the wave light offers an advantage. So what? That was not the debate. Damn...

What is the debate, then? Because I still see people saying that the WRs are due to the shoes, not the wavelights. Even when EVERYONE has the shoes, and the average professional time is no different this year than prior years. But, some have access to the wavelight and are taking advantage to break records. It is unfair.

sderd wrote:

A good human pacemaker is more valuable than wave lights. But of course the good human pacemaker is hard to find.

This doesn't make sense. How is a human pacer more valuable? Cos a human pacer may talk to you during the race and wavelights don't? I don't see how else. Sorry. What value are you referring to? Holding the pace?

Anthos wrote:

sderd wrote:

A good human pacemaker is more valuable than wave lights. But of course the good human pacemaker is hard to find.

This doesn't make sense. How is a human pacer more valuable? Cos a human pacer may talk to you during the race and wavelights don't? I don't see how else. Sorry. What value are you referring to? Holding the pace?

Checkmate...you guys are idiots.

Anthos wrote:

sderd wrote:

A good human pacemaker is more valuable than wave lights. But of course the good human pacemaker is hard to find.

This doesn't make sense. How is a human pacer more valuable? Cos a human pacer may talk to you during the race and wavelights don't? I don't see how else. Sorry. What value are you referring to? Holding the pace?

He's referring to air resistance, which is indeed valuable. BUT, the wavelights have value when the pacemaker DROPS OUT. Then, you can hold the pace the lights are set at. It's a huge advantage in the 5k and 10k to have perfect pacing for the WHOLE race. Bekele did not have this benefit.

sderd wrote:

Anthos wrote:

This doesn't make sense. How is a human pacer more valuable? Cos a human pacer may talk to you during the race and wavelights don't? I don't see how else. Sorry. What value are you referring to? Holding the pace?

Checkmate...you guys are idiots.

You argument has been defeated soundly. You can have a human pacemaker AND wavelights, you know. Which has been the case in EVERY WR this year. You are a moron.

` wrote:

sderd wrote:

Checkmate...you guys are idiots.

You argument has been defeated soundly. You can have a human pacemaker AND wavelights, you know. Which has been the case in EVERY WR this year. You are a moron.

You are an idiot. Not in my league intellectually. Nuance escapes you and your mate Anthos.

sderd wrote:

` wrote:

You argument has been defeated soundly. You can have a human pacemaker AND wavelights, you know. Which has been the case in EVERY WR this year. You are a moron.

You are an idiot. Not in my league intellectually. Nuance escapes you and your mate Anthos.

LOL, ok buddy. Typical of someone who has just been intellectually shattered to come back with nothing but insults. Why don't you go back to eating paint chips?

George213 wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

Hard not to be skeptical of all these Hassan performances having watched her performances around 3-4 years ago, but I try not to rob myself of the enjoyment of sport by thinking too much about doping.

She is definitely the greatest female distance runner of all time at this point. Greatest 1500 performance of all time, amazing WRs a 1 hour, 10,000, etc. Dang impressive.

To be the GOAT, she needs an Olympic Gold though, and I'm saying this as a fan of her.

NO she doesn't. The Olympics is one race every 4 bloody years. If she wins consistently and runs the those times, her having on that one day does NOT matter. Her winning Gold or not does NOT define her as the GOAT or NOT!

Gidey (and everyone else) is gonna get destroyed in Tokyo.

Passant wrote:

The trigger for Sifan Hassan happened one month after this race:

Women 1500m Diamond League Shanghai May 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1So4iQ2P5ck

where she was humiliated by ARAFI (I see Gudaf Tsegay was there too).

I never understand the psychology of women middle/long distance runners. One month they are good, the following month they drop.

Genzebe Dibaba is a great illustration of inconstant controversial runner.

But Sifan Hassan was enough constant all these last 6 years so wen can give her favors.

Not a complicated one. This was the season opener in a long season which Hassan came into pretty soon off of a big half marathon build in the spring. She had been doing almost no speed at that point yet. Also if I remember correctly from commentary at the time she had travel issues getting to Shanghai late.

She did a 65min HM barely a month before Shanghai, and a 10,000m in California two weeks before Shanghai. She was still incredibly strong at that point 'cause she turned around two days later to run 4:00 in the Nanjing challenge.

Even Hassan can't be in 3:55 1500m shape at the same time as being in 65min HM shape, but she translated that base into a wicked 2019 season once she sharpened up.

For Arafi meanwhile that race was pretty much the high point of the year. To me that's the bigger question - how come Arafi roared into the season with a win, but then didn't really make an impact the rest of the season.

Dibaba is an easy one to answer.

Passant wrote:

The doping anti-apologists did not neat appear yet in this thread.

Those that when they see a runner ahead of others runners by ten of meters

they say: it's the effect of PEIDS.

I really truly believe that she is clean. Her coach is just a normal nice guy from utah (inherited as her handler from NOP), and I think she is simple enough to be unable to dope without help.