Ridiculous DQ? I just got DQd after running 4:08 at mile sectional

Al Sleet wrote:

2 THE GILLS!!! wrote:

He made the kid runner farther than necessary to beat him. Just because the other kid was better doesn't mean the slower kid should get away with breaking the rules.

You can continue to post the same stupid chit over and over but it doesn't make you appear any less stupid.

What did he write that was stupid? I didn't see anything stupid about what he wrote. He noted that the kid intentionally tried to impede the other runner. He believes this should be a dq, and you believe it shouldn't be a dq. Really it comes down to your interpretation of "flagrant." The kid made an attempt to impede the other runner. One of you think it was flagrant, the other doesn't.

Just watched your video, fastpep828. I had to watch it 5 or 6 times to even be able to tell what happened, it was so mild. It's a weak, weak, weak call by the official. It's so bad, it makes you wonder, what axe he had to grind.

That being said, bullsh!t like this happens in life. It's like driving in the slow lane going 1 m/hr faster than the speed limit while car buzz by you 15 m/hr over and you get pulled over by the cop. Or the waitress who gets nailed for not paying taxes on $50 in tips, while rich scumbags cheat on their taxes for millions and get away with it.

It straight up sucks. It's a bad break. But it happens. You take the hit and keep on keepin' on, a little more battle-tested than before.

The only thing that can be done is train a little harder so that next time you're so damn far away from anyone they can't even try to DQ you. And keep your elbow in.

To bring in an extreme example, is it okay for me to drive drunk if I don’t hurt anybody?

All your post shows is that rules probably need to be enforced more. You can’t just dismiss a rule because no one was affected by it.

And in this specific case, runner 2 was affected in a minor way.

What a stupid response. Yes that’s extreme. Ok speed limit is 55 and you drive 56, better enforce that.

That's a real petty call. One would have to see the actual written rules for disqualification for your state to really draw a conclusion.

rojo wrote:

I've long said our rule book needs a revision. There has to be something short of a DQ. If they want to place you 2nd, go ahead. Oh wait, you already were second. Give you a 5 second penalty, etc.

This is what they do in cycling. If you drift off your line and impede someone else, you get relegated to the back of whatever bunch you are in. Complete DQs are only for the more flagrant violations.

Star wrote:

You’ve run in track meets since 1970.

How many times have you personally seen a DQ called for this?

I ran for 10 years between high school, college and post college.

I’ve never seen it called at a meet I’ve been to.

But I have seen it happen many times, someone running wide.

I do think it should be called if someone runs another wide and barely beats them.

I've read the above posts and I'll agree with you. I know auto racing isn't track racing. Although they are both run on a track.

But anyway in auto racing it's legal to swerve out of your lane to block someone trying to pass you.

The object is to win the race. There's no sportsmanship in sports until the events are over.

If I'm leading a race coming off the last turn and I want to win I should be able to drift into any

lane I choose. Just so long as I don't make contact with the passing runner there should be no foul.

Seriously, shouldn't the leading runner coming off the final turn be allowed whatever lane he choose to finish in?

Total BS. People drift to the outside all the time, especially when sprinting coming off the turn.

Plus, even if you did interfere, which I don't think you did, you still lost. Any minor interference that fails to affect the outcome of a race should not result in a DQ, especially if the minor interference could be accidental.

coachy wrote:

What a stupid response. Yes that’s extreme. Ok speed limit is 55 and you drive 56, better enforce that.

You really are too stupid to understand what I’m saying. I said many times it is petty.

Yes or no: can you get a ticket for going 56 in a 55? The answer is yes. Same with this. He got penalized for breaking a rule. Live with it

I don’t like the DQ for one reason...

If this is a sectional meet, that means it’s a qualifier for state/another meet. So you’re DQing a 4:08 guy who could possibly win state over something really trivial like this.

How many people per sectional qualify? Whenever something like this happens always ask your coach to protest the decision.

rojo wrote:

2. I've long said our rule book needs a revision. There has to be something short of a DQ. If they want to place you 2nd, go ahead. Oh wait, you already were second. Give you a 5 second penalty, etc.

I agree with this. The penalty needs to fit the crime. It's a difficult task to implement something like this but I hope that our approach of all or nothing can be changed.

I'll also say that I don't agree with posters who said that if the inside runner had won then they'd call a DQ but since he didn't then there's no need for a DQ. There's either a violation or not and that violation took place long before the finish line. The official shouldn't hold his flag to see the outcome or shouldn't pick it up depending on the outcome.

What I gathered from reading 5 pages of responses is that several people hold strong opinions on one or the other side here. Why is it that most of us have competed in many track races and watched many more but don't have overwhelming agreement on whether this should be a foul or not? This isn't something that comes up once in a million races. It happens often. It's also not something that was hard to see or happened so quickly that the official might not have seen it. This says something about either us, the officials, the rules or all three groups.

I, for one, admit that when competing I never read the rule book - or really even knew there was a rule book. Can't remember our coach reviewing anything about rules like not wearing jewelry or shorts having to match all other teammates shorts or when it was ok to cut in at the start of a 1500, etc. Maybe competitors need to review the rules more thoroughly. And it would be great if there were video examples for a few rules like this one so that even though the words are a bit ambiguous, we could understand the situations where a DQ would be called. And it does seem from the comments here that NJ officials have a reputation. Don't know what to do about that but it would be helpful if they at least are consistent on how they call the same situations.

Actually you can run in any lane you want. But you can't force other runners to slow down or change course because of your movements.

In this case the passing runner was already on the guys sholder trying to make the pass when the leading runner decided to drift out which left the passing runner with only the options of moving further out, running into the leading runner, or slowing down and trying to pass to the left.

If the leading runner had drifted while the trailing runner was far enough behind to be able to pick left or right without having to slow down, he would have been fine.

If you watch the video you can see the passing runner make a quick dodging movement as he is passing to avoid getting tripped. It can be hard to see because it happens right as the camera is panning to the right.

Yawn^2 wrote:

coachy wrote:

What a stupid response. Yes that’s extreme. Ok speed limit is 55 and you drive 56, better enforce that.

You really are too stupid to understand what I’m saying. I said many times it is petty.

Yes or no: can you get a ticket for going 56 in a 55? The answer is yes. Same with this. He got penalized for breaking a rule. Live with it

There is exactly 0% chance that you would get a ticket for driving 56 in a 55 so the answer is no.

We are almost on the same side LOL

It should be a DQ. He did it and is paying the consequences. Maybe a difficult lesson but hopefully will own up to it and learn from it in the future. Kind of an embarrassing thing to do and have everyone see but we all make mistakes and mis judgements especially in the heat of the moment. Move on and look forward to future. Good luck.

Coach McGuirk wrote:

It seems like this never-ending thread is just split between two camps. People that believe you should apply the rule simply because that’s the rule (which you definitely should) or people who are too stubborn to admit that there was a clear violation of the rule. Yeah you could whine all you want that the kid still ended up losing but he, without question, tried pulling a beta move and cut off the superior runner because he knew he was beat. Good on the official. Make an example outta the kid. I bet he won’t do it again.

It is a subjective rule.

Meaning, it requires judgement.

If you think that’s a clear violation, then you would have DQs in races all of the time.

Based on your view, this man should have been disqualified in the Olympics:

He came out of the turn in the lead and drifted until he finished in the outside of lane two.

The Silver medal winner had to move to lane three to try and fail to get by him.

coachy wrote:

Yawn^2 wrote:

You really are too stupid to understand what I’m saying. I said many times it is petty.

Yes or no: can you get a ticket for going 56 in a 55? The answer is yes. Same with this. He got penalized for breaking a rule. Live with it

There is exactly 0% chance that you would get a ticket for driving 56 in a 55 so the answer is no.

We are almost on the same side LOL

The question was can you. The answer is yes

Totally wrong to call this. Yes veered slightly to his right but only 1 step was it in reaction to his opponent being close and that happens in racing when a kid is moving fast and fatigued. No real contact or impeding done, just a general drift of less than a foot. Making this call because the 2 were stride for stride but all alone is BS when I’ve seen thousands of much worse impeding in 4x4 as well as 800.

still upset 5 years later wrote:

2 THE GILLS!!! wrote:

100% a DQ. You can't drift out to cut off a runner that is trying to pass you. That is a textbook DQ, even though it doesn't get called as often as it should. Learn to not race dirty.

So, in the 2016 OlyTrials 1500, why wasn’t Ben Blankenship DQ’d when he drifted to his outside and cut off Leo Manzano? If it wasn’t for that bush move, Leo would have passed Blankenship and would have clinched the 3rd Olympic spot.

Different rules?

Star wrote:

It is a subjective rule.

Meaning, it requires judgement.

To me, this is the key.

Part of the "rule" is that it is a judgement call. So it makes no sense to argue about whether it was or was not a violation. According to the judge, who, by rule, is responsible for making judgements about violations of rules, it was a violation. That's the rule. It is irrelevant that other judges might let it go. It is irrelevant that that judge might have ruled differently in similar situations in the past.

I know that makes this sound like the judges have the power to decide race results based solely on their own whim. In fact, this is the case. Apparently the rule is that the judgement can't be appealed.

Possible remedies:

Remove judgement calls by defining rules quantitatively rather than qualitatively (get rid of wiggle words like "flagrant")

Train judges better

Allow for appeals

"instant replay?"

To the OP, good luck in your future endeavors!