Given that this is HS, the stakes involved, and ultimately there was no harm in the results, IMO this specific example calls for some penalty short of a DQ. I agree that a mechanism to convey this would be useful.
Maybe locals knew this runner does this all the time and the officials had been asked to watch for it? I’d tend to have less tolerance in a situation like this if a runner has done it and been warned about it before.
Hmmm. Tough one. You swung wide to cut him off, but he won anyway. Technically interference but no blood, no foul? No way you would win an appeal even if you could lodge one. Large luck @ Virginia and stay in your lane.
It absolutely sucks but whether you meant to or not (and I think you did mean to) you drifted right to try and block him. The DQ is justified (and a bit petty).
You guys keep going off of your gut instead of applying the rule. The rhythm was not broken. No DQ.
smarter than Astro wrote:
You guys keep going off of your gut instead of applying the rule. The rhythm was not broken. No DQ.
I see you are fixated on the running rhythm aspect. And I understand why, given that the article states that “Here is the rule on interference as stated in the rulebook written by the National Federation of State High School Associations, which the NJSIAA follows for its rules. ‘Interference is any action by a competitor that unfairly changes the natural running rhythm of a competitor during a race. This may include bumping, tripping, or running across a competitor's path. Penalty-Disqualification from event.’”
Per the 2020 NFHS Rule Book (Rule 5-9 Infractions for All Races), however, ‘Interference is any action by a competitor that unfairly changes the course or natural running rhythm of a competitor during a race. This may include bumping, tripping, or running across a competitor's path. Penalty-Disqualification from event.’
Was this changed in 2021 to remove the words “course or”? Or is the article incorrect?
I think the trailing runner established position in lane 2 (not that lanes matter but it’s more for describing the position), but he had to unfairly change course out to lane 3. He has to abruptly swing wide and there should be no reason for that.
Or did Michigan not implement that part of the rule?
smarter than Astro wrote:
Or did Michigan not implement that part of the rule?
Per the NJSIAA GUIDELINES,
POLICIES AND PROCEDURES for 2020-2021, page 7 states that “Schools and officials are reminded that NJSIAA is a 100% state, meaning that we follow the playing rules established by the NFHS.”
I don’t fully know what that means, but I highly doubt they are goi g to selectively choose to ignore a very small piece of a rule.
https://www.njsiaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/2020-10/njsiaa-policies-and-procedures-20-21.pdfRules say he cannot intentionally run across another’s path. He ran across another’s path. Case closed.
Nothing to do with my gut. Read the rules
from the article;
Here is the rule on interference as stated in the rulebook written by the National Federation of State High School Associations, which the NJSIAA follows for its rules.
"Interference is any action by a competitor that unfairly changes the natural running rhythm of a competitor during a race. This may include bumping, tripping, or running across a competitor's path.'' Penalty-Disqualification from event.
This does not mention 'attempt'. In any case, learn from the incident. dont go all 'blaming, unfair, wah wah wah'..
Accept that shot will come your way and learn to avoid it. Coaches here telling you to run all over the track to block people because 'thats the real world' should be ashamed. Its llike the professional foul - yes it happens, but you dont say 'i am a coach and i promote it'.
Driving instructors dont say; 'lots of people speed, so you should too'.
pupil3142 wrote:
from the article;
Here is the rule on interference as stated in the rulebook written by the National Federation of State High School Associations, which the NJSIAA follows for its rules.
"Interference is any action by a competitor that unfairly changes the natural running rhythm of a competitor during a race. This may include bumping, tripping, or running across a competitor's path.'' Penalty-Disqualification from event.
This does not mention 'attempt'. In any case, learn from the incident. dont go all 'blaming, unfair, wah wah wah'..
Accept that shot will come your way and learn to avoid it. Coaches here telling you to run all over the track to block people because 'thats the real world' should be ashamed. Its llike the professional foul - yes it happens, but you dont say 'i am a coach and i promote it'.
Driving instructors dont say; 'lots of people speed, so you should too'.
Last sentence sums it up perfectly. To add to it, you don’t always get caught speeding, but if you do you might get a ticket
Yawn^2 wrote:
Rules say he cannot intentionally run across another’s path. He ran across another’s path. Case closed.
Nothing to do with my gut. Read the rules
So you are saying that ‘Smarter than astro’ is wrong by reading the full rule? He/she should only read the part about intentionally crossing and then it’s case closed?
The rules do not simply say he cannot intentionally run across another’s path. If that was the case, then any time there is a single file during the race, everybody would be DQ’d except the last runner. The lead runner is in the path of the second place runner, the second place runner is in the path of the third, etc.
You got to stay on your line. Drifting out like that is a bush league move:
The way I see it, it's no more impeding a runner than speeding up around a turn to prevent a runner from getting inside. You are allowed to run in front of another runner. You are allowed to get in front of a runner and slow down if you like, as long as you don't bump them or cut them off in a way that trips them up. Causing another runner to move wider than they want to, without contact, or without even coming close to contact, should not be a foul.
Preventing a great athlete from going to state over this is just disgraceful.
Yawn^2 wrote:
Rules say he cannot intentionally run across another’s path. He ran across another’s path. Case closed.
Nothing to do with my gut. Read the rules
If you want to read it literally, he actually never crossed his path. He entered the path that the other runner WOULD have taken. But he didn't cross it, and he definitely didn't cross the path that the runner took. Instead he strategically moved into lane two in a way that allowed the eventual winner to gracefully pass him by moving into lane three.
The Dirty Duck wrote:
The way I see it, it's no more impeding a runner than speeding up around a turn to prevent a runner from getting inside. You are allowed to run in front of another runner. You are allowed to get in front of a runner and slow down if you like, as long as you don't bump them or cut them off in a way that trips them up. Causing another runner to move wider than they want to, without contact, or without even coming close to contact, should not be a foul.
Preventing a great athlete from going to state over this is just disgraceful.
It's a league game. Mark it zero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vB9U2hx6QgIt's not Nam, it's running, there are rules.
The Dirty Duck wrote:
Yawn^2 wrote:
Rules say he cannot intentionally run across another’s path. He ran across another’s path. Case closed.
Nothing to do with my gut. Read the rules
If you want to read it literally, he actually never crossed his path. He entered the path that the other runner WOULD have taken. But he didn't cross it, and he definitely didn't cross the path that the runner took. Instead he strategically moved into lane two in a way that allowed the eventual winner to gracefully pass him by moving into lane three.
path
paTH
noun
the course or direction in which a person or thing is moving.
You got screwed, sorry. I agree with Rojo that it would be nice if it wasn't all-or-nothing but I don't know how that could actually be implemented effectively.
Nice bounce back from the COVID time off earlier in the year.
Congrats on the 8:55
Great rebound
If I was an official I would of DQd you if you had beaten him.
In this situation though I would of just given you a warning. Then communicated to the state officials that you received a warning and they should be looking out for this type of rule breakage at the state meet.
However you did break the rule and they have every right to DQ you.
In any case it’s a learning experience. Move on and get better not bitter.
todqornotdq wrote:
Yawn^2 wrote:
Rules say he cannot intentionally run across another’s path. He ran across another’s path. Case closed.
Nothing to do with my gut. Read the rules
So you are saying that ‘Smarter than astro’ is wrong by reading the full rule? He/she should only read the part about intentionally crossing and then it’s case closed?
The rules do not simply say he cannot intentionally run across another’s path. If that was the case, then any time there is a single file during the race, everybody would be DQ’d except the last runner. The lead runner is in the path of the second place runner, the second place runner is in the path of the third, etc.
Terrible extrapolation. I did not quote the whole rule because I shouldn’t have to.
Are you really telling me that the DQed runner’s actions did not have any effect on the second runner?
It’s very simple, do not intentionally cross the other runners pass. This guy did it for almost 2 lanes worth of space. He broke the rules.
Your stupid argument about single file running is inapplicable and doesn’t even make sense.