My cadence is too high?

BigMango wrote:

I'm leaning toward just worrying about other issues. Not many at the moments but regardless, is it really worth even mildly stressing over?

No. And why look for other things to worry about?

BigMango wrote:

54 yo and my cadence creeps up every year. Now my 5:45 pace TH runs are over 200 and 30 second hill repeats are hitting 230. Have no idea how this looks, possibly quite goofy, but it feels normal. Have tiny legs and a big upper body so doubt I'll ever be considered graceful. People I run with and many are faster, usually are 10-35 steps lower at the same paces.

Not even sure how to change it other than trying to lengthen my stride. This hasn't worked and my back kinda hurt. I'm leaning toward just worrying about other issues. Not many at the moments but regardless, is it really worth even mildly stressing over?

The typical decline for us getting 50 and above is the decrease in strength and flexibility. What typically happens as we age is that the cadence is pretty stable, but the stride length decreases. Often the largest reason is less power from the calves, but also in general from the whole leg. Decline in range of motion is of course a driver for increased cadence.

I would focus on strength and dynamic flexibility and good running form. I think short hill sprints are super for at least the strength and running form. This can improve your power such that you run better and faster at a lower cadence. I would just include such training on a firm basis for the rest of your running life.

Flexibility in the hip and lower back area is also important to keep at a functional level. I got advice to do deep lunges and I have included dynamic lunges with strengthening and stretching for the glutes, hamstrings, and this also improves flexibility for the hip flexors.

It is true that short legs gives a higher cadence naturally, but that is not a problem or disadvantage. The work to turn the legs over will also be less than a long-legged fellow and what counts is the combined cadence & stride length. A too high cadence restricts the force the muscles can manage to produce in each step, but if the force is improved by training, you would not need to counteract with an elevated cadence, right?

In general a touch higher cadence is more economical than a lower and more forceful action, but within a natural cadence range though

BigMango wrote:

54 yo and my cadence creeps up every year. Now my 5:45 pace TH runs are over 200 and 30 second hill repeats are hitting 230. Have no idea how this looks, possibly quite goofy, but it feels normal. Have tiny legs and a big upper body so doubt I'll ever be considered graceful. People I run with and many are faster, usually are 10-35 steps lower at the same paces.

Not even sure how to change it other than trying to lengthen my stride. This hasn't worked and my back kinda hurt. I'm leaning toward just worrying about other issues. Not many at the moments but regardless, is it really worth even mildly stressing over?

For that pace a good cadence is typically around 180. However taller people have a little bit lower cadence, smaller people a little bit higher. Guess you are on the small side?

If that is the case you are only a little bit too high with your cadence.

You can try to run that fast with a small metronome, set it to 190 and see what happens.

You have to push more to the ground to get a higher stride length (lowers cadence by the same speed).

My guess would be that you're losing stride length with age, but your fitness is on the same level, so the only way to compensate is with high cadence. This is obviously not a (big) problem until your cadence also becomes limited, probably somewhere in the full sprint pace area. The solution is likely the same as the problem: do sprints (both flat and hill sprints). This should both raise the limit on the cadence and help increase stride length. Just try to not get hurt doing it. I had and it sucks.

@ Jon,

My legs are not short. Sorry for the confusion. 5'11" and 163 lb. I just have tiny legs compared to my upper body. As you stated, need to focus on strength and have started doing a little the last few months. Definitely feel stronger but my cadence is the same but too early to know the impact.

Also, my strength training consists of 6-8 reps of 20-45 second hill sprints once or twice a week and sideways big hops periodically on easy treadmill walks/runs. Pretty pathetic regimen but it is a start. Sure has helped with my chronic hip pain and mild knee issues.

Thanks for the advice

@Lexel,

No, I'm 5'11" 163 lbs. My post was referring to leg girth not length. I do see a difference in height and cadence but not a big difference. Even smaller runners I've looked at rarely have a cadence over 180 at 5:45 pace ( for that matter, most at 5:00 min pace ). Talking to my friends about paces, I arrived at the same conclusion you arrived at. My cadence is probably not far off the norm. Then I went into Strava and found reality was far different than what they were saying. Good people and they were being sincere but far from accurate. I do the same mistakenly all the time so I get it.

Also to get a more random sample of faster runners, I searched on Letsrun for for "fast runners on Strava". I looked at the first 8 I think on one of the threads. One didn't have cadence numbers and the rest were much lower 190 at 5:45. If I remember right, only one had an avg above 180 at 10k pace.

I'm locked down at the Thai/Lao border at a resort and have too much time on my hands. Thanks for the input.

@Darby, Think you nailed it and guesses the same a few months back. Dropped the intervals for now and replaced them with 30-45 second hard hill sprints. Once or twice a week. Think they are helping but to soon to tell. My cadence has remained the same but in the end, it might not matter. Would like to still do intervals but being a little slower is OK if I reduce the risk of injury.

So your legs aren't short but they are short?

@ Why worry?

Not looking for and simply just addressing worries so they are no longer worries. I've learned that this is a better approach with women and running. My two favorites...

Why worry,

show me where I said they are short. Never happened but you know this already. At my age, just feel sorry for you . Hurting others brings you pleasure and everybody but you sees your weakness. Cheers!

BigMango wrote:

@ Jon,

My legs are not short. Sorry for the confusion. 5'11" and 163 lb. I just have tiny legs compared to my upper body. As you stated, need to focus on strength and have started doing a little the last few months. Definitely feel stronger but my cadence is the same but too early to know the impact.

Also, my strength training consists of 6-8 reps of 20-45 second hill sprints once or twice a week and sideways big hops periodically on easy treadmill walks/runs. Pretty pathetic regimen but it is a start. Sure has helped with my chronic hip pain and mild knee issues.

Thanks for the advice

Ok then you are the same height as me. I have a 6.25 threshold pace and then I have 170-175 of cadence. If hitting 5.45 I would need to close in on 180. I think 190 would be mechanically OK, but the number 180 is really from runners running way faster than 5.45, for example under 14min 5k. I think you should focus on geting a better push and extension through the hips and rear leg when running and let the legs move forward naturally.

BigMango wrote:

@Darby, Think you nailed it and guesses the same a few months back. Dropped the intervals for now and replaced them with 30-45 second hard hill sprints. Once or twice a week. Think they are helping but to soon to tell. My cadence has remained the same but in the end, it might not matter. Would like to still do intervals but being a little slower is OK if I reduce the risk of injury.

One last tip from my side: You can strengthen your muscel as often you want your cadence does not go down until you push more during running. You have to use the muscle in a correct way!

If you would do that you would need also no extra muscle training.

@ Jon & Lexel,

Never tried to push off the last 6 years. My first try at being a runner in 2008 ended because my lower legs couldn't handle the push-off. I developed a running style that puts less stress on my lower legs. They are rarely ever an issue now. Not dismissing the benefits of lower leg push-off but it brings back bad memories.

As for hip extension, need to start working on it but implementing it is difficult. Kind of like meditation, always wondering if I'm doing it right. Thanks for the input guys.

There is no need to change your cadence. Generally, a higher cadence reduces the risk of injuries, which becomes more and more important after age 50.

Your pace is excellent for your age. If you're running marathons, I wouldn't change a thing. If you're running the 1500 to 5000, you can possibly gain more speed and especially more kick at the end of your races by changing your hill sprints as follows.

Do the following DRILL. Let me emphasize, this is a drill, it's not sprinting or running. Find a steep hill. "Steep" is steep enough that you could not run down it at an all out sprint. Reduce the time of your sprints... 45 seconds is way too long for this drill and will cause you to drop back into your normal shuffling stride.

Don't start from a standing position. Roll up the start with a slow jog to reduce the risk of injury. Run 15 seconds powering up the hill. Lift your knees a little more than you normally would. Push off a little more than you normally would. But other than that, it's an all out effort.

You will NOT be as fast as you would be in your normal hill sprints. That doesn't matter. You'll be tempted to revert to your normal form, especially as you get tired. Don't. Have the discipline to stay with the slight knee lift, slight push-off, powering motion. Remember. It. Is. A. Drill.

Mark how far you get with a stick or something. Walk back down. Take at least 90 seconds of recovery. Do 8 reps if you can. If you're short of your mark by 5 meters or so, the workout is over, even if you only did 5 reps.

Once you can do 8 reps without slowing, you can increase the time to 20 seconds.

Do NOT run back downhill. Walk or slow jog and wait the full 90 seconds before the next rep.

This drill 1) increases range of motion in a lower-risk movement than level ground. 2) Trains the knee to lift higher 3) Does some other stuff that's with the trailing leg that's too long to go into here 4) Boosts metabolism and testosterone levels. (It's called the Sprint 8 or SIT (Sprint Intensity Training.)

Search Youtube for:

James Dune Hip Extension

and watch all related videos.

@ Flisky, Thanks and this will be my new weekly hill workout. I usually do 30 sec hill sprints at night after a 6 am threshold the same day. I like to give my legs 2 to 3 full days to recover and by adding the session the same day I can do this and still get some other hard sessions scheduled during the week.

@ViperDom, will watch tonight. Thanks

ViperDom wrote:

Search Youtube for:

James Dune Hip Extension

and watch all related videos.

I especially like Kipchoge and think James is good

You can see Kipchoge is extending and pushing of with a lot, basically all the leg, the hip and the rotation with his core. All to propell forward.