Caitlyn Jenner is against Transgender athletes competing in women’s sports

Ok7272 wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The liberal mob is not going to vote for a Republican candidate so of course she's not going to support transgender athletes. If she wants to have a chance of winning the election, that was the only possible answer she could give to the reporter.

That she is a transgender female and won a

gold medal decades ago as a man, does not make her opinion any more meaningful than the next person's.

By running for governor, she's asking for acceptance for who she is, but on the other hand, does not accept transgender athletes. She can't have it both ways.

But it's not about accepting transgender athletes as people, it's about accepting transgender athletes as legitimate competitors

I still believe her having that opinion is purely a political calculation. Running for governor as a transgender female and competing against women are both legal, yet she deserves acceptance and they don't. I've lost what little respect I had for her.

You're not missing anything. Jenner is right.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I still believe her having that opinion is purely a political calculation. Running for governor as a transgender female and competing against women are both legal, yet she deserves acceptance and they don't. I've lost what little respect I had for her.

Believing that athletic classifications should be based on sex rather than gender doesn't constitute a lack of acceptance of transgender individuals.

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

https://www.vox.com/22409461/caitlyn-jenner-california-governor-recall

Just like blacks, the left throws away their pawns as soon as they start thinking for themselves. They want all blacks/hispanics/asians/trans/women/disabled to be good little pawns they can use to emotionally blackmail all who oppose them (i.e. "You don't want in open borders? You must be a racist!"). As soon as any one of these "victims" starts thinking outside the bounds of the leftist narrative, their victim status is immediately revoked and are subject to more vitriol from the left than they would from a majority of the right. Just look at Tim Scott (one of those evil, racist republicans) having racial slurs thrown at him by members of the left for claiming racism isn't holding black people back in America #UncleTim.

this isn't lack of acceptance wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I still believe her having that opinion is purely a political calculation. Running for governor as a transgender female and competing against women are both legal, yet she deserves acceptance and they don't. I've lost what little respect I had for her.

Believing that athletic classifications should be based on sex rather than gender doesn't constitute a lack of acceptance of transgender individuals.

The state senators voting for a ban of transgender athletes are mostly driven by transphobia and she is taking their side. Now they have the ammunition to say the most famous transgender female in the world supports their cause.

She also isn't much of a politician; I'm sure she was surprised to be asked about the subject during her morning coffee run, but it's an obvious question and instead of having an intelligent, somewhat nuanced answer prepared, she responds with a simplistic yes or no and repeats the reporter's terminology of "Biological male". Is that the box she checks for herself?

SDSU Aztec wrote:

this isn't lack of acceptance wrote:

Believing that athletic classifications should be based on sex rather than gender doesn't constitute a lack of acceptance of transgender individuals.

The state senators voting for a ban of transgender athletes are mostly driven by transphobia and she is taking their side. Now they have the ammunition to say the most famous transgender female in the world supports their cause.

She also isn't much of a politician; I'm sure she was surprised to be asked about the subject during her morning coffee run, but it's an obvious question and instead of having an intelligent, somewhat nuanced answer prepared, she responds with a simplistic yes or no and repeats the reporter's terminology of "Biological male". Is that the box she checks for herself?

No one is suggesting that transgender athletes should be banned from competing. People are suggesting that classifications should be based on sex rather than gender. Requiring someone to compete as a male because their sex is male is not equivalent to banning them from competition.

It's not the same thing. A transgender female receiving hormone treatments cannot compete against men.

Does Jenner believe hormone treatments do not level the playing field or that there will be "fakes"? She didn't say. Because of who she is, she needs to do better than that. She is not a red state senator.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

this isn't lack of acceptance wrote:

No one is suggesting that transgender athletes should be banned from competing. People are suggesting that classifications should be based on sex rather than gender. Requiring someone to compete as a male because their sex is male is not equivalent to banning them from competition.

It's not the same thing. A transgender female receiving hormone treatments cannot compete against men.

Does Jenner believe hormone treatments do not level the playing field or that there will be "fakes"? She didn't say. Because of who she is, she needs to do better than that. She is not a red state senator.

If she follows the science, which so far indicates that men receiving hormone treatments do not regress to the athleticism within the range of women, she will say hormone treatments do not level the playing field. I am not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

It is not like there is a huge pool of study info on this topic, although I am sure that will change soon, but so far I have not seen a single study indicate that men lose a significant amount of athletic ability by taking feminizing hormones.

She said exactly what a red state senator would say and even used their terminology. She didn't explain why they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Why does she believe "it just isn't fair"? Would she have transitioned had that option been available in 1976?

In regard to distance running, June Eastwood would have finished near last place had she continued to run against men.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

By running for governor, she's asking for acceptance for who she is, but on the other hand, does not accept transgender athletes. She can't have it both ways.

“Who she is” is a man who lives as a women. She knows that. You, who misgendered her earlier in the thread, obviously know that too. She’s asking to be accepted as such (as a man who has decided for whatever reason to live as a women), but she’s not asking anyone to deny the biological reality that she is physically a male, and she’s not asking for the right to enter a competition against girls.

All of that seems completely fair and reasonable.

I've tried thinking about this issue from a lot of different angles. As a cis woman, I feel that everyone should have an opportunity to compete. I do understand the argument that asking a trans girl to compete in the boys division is sort of like telling a gay man that they can just "marry a woman". That there is no simple answer.

But I do think that trans girls have an advantage that is unfair. That there has to be more conclusive studies about the amount of HRT and the years that a trans woman needs to be on HRT to truly level the playing field. I also believe that gender identity is not enough and without HRT, it gives trans girls an unfair advantage in sport no matter how good (or bad) they are at the sport.

The thing that I always think about is if I myself was a trans girl, who in high school chose to come out. I just truly can't imagine myself believing I was entitled to compete with cis girls, or believing that it was fair to win or take spots away from them. I think about this when I consider Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood. No disrespect to them, but I just can't believe they have convinced themselves that they won fair and square. Even harder to believe is Cece Telfer, who spent six years competing against cis-boys, and as a cis-male, before transitioning and then winning national titles. How does Cece square that jump with herself in just a year? I just can't understand it.

I think I would feel that way if I was a parent of a trans girl too. Like I would want what is best for my child, but in my heart and deep down I would know that it would be unfair. That's why this is so hard for me to get behind.

Here is what I think:

Elite athletes and NCAA athletes should have strict rules around inclusion of trans and DSD women and that should be based in actual research that they should do. I agree with Rojo it is not a human right to compete in elite athletics.

children should compete with whatever gender they identify in. We already put way too much emphasis on youth sports. Chill out, an 8 year old's travel soccer game is not the World Cup. Let kids be kids, and be themselves.

High School is where it gets tricky. But I think it's fair at this point to insist on a year of HRT for trans girls to compete in state championship meets. But invitationals and other meets should be fine for them to compete in.

Jenner for Gov wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

By running for governor, she's asking for acceptance for who she is, but on the other hand, does not accept transgender athletes. She can't have it both ways.

“Who she is” is a man who lives as a women. She knows that. You, who misgendered her earlier in the thread, obviously know that too. She’s asking to be accepted as such (as a man who has decided for whatever reason to live as a women), but she’s not asking anyone to deny the biological reality that she is physically a male, and she’s not asking for the right to enter a competition against girls.

All of that seems completely fair and reasonable.

I couldn't find a single quote from her where she identifies herself as a man living as a woman. "All of that" seems like a lot of mind reading on your part.

You probably weren't around when Jenner won his (male at the time) gold medal but he was as manly and handsome as it gets and she's about the only transgender female I'm likely to misgender.

In the Connecticut HS transgender athletes trial, the plaintiff's transphobic attorneys called for the recusal of the judge when he requested for them to not use "biological male", but Jenner is fine with it.

By rejecting transgender athletes without any explanation, she gives the impression of throwing other transgender people under the bus for conservative votes. I'm not saying she has to support transgender athletes, but as the most famous transgender woman in the world, she needs to explain herself.

Didn't he run someone over in his car while texting with no repercussion?

There is a much simpler solution . Get rid of the idea of Men's/Boy's sports. Create an open division for anyone who wants to participate in it and a women's only for biological women who do not want to participate in the open.

Let it Rupp wrote:If she follows the science, which so far indicates that men receiving hormone treatments do not regress to the athleticism within the range of women, she will say hormone treatments do not level the playing field. I am not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref

It is not like there is a huge pool of study info on this topic, although I am sure that will change soon, but so far I have not seen a single study indicate that men lose a significant amount of athletic ability by taking feminizing hormones.

Why do you think there will be a huge pool of study into this topic any time soo?. No sports organization has loosened their transgender policy recently, and there is no large increase in the number of trans athletes in women's sports. (The current NCAA policy has been in place for more than a decade and IOC/WA policy has been there since 2004.) So how do you find more samples?

Here is one study, based on eight distant runners. It's too small of a sample size to draw any conclusion, and it's limited to only one type of activity. The problem is it's almost impossible to find a large number of cases over multiple sports.

dumptruxk wrote:

Didn't he run someone over in his car while texting with no repercussion?

Based on some photos immediately before the accident, Jenner was holding a cigarette and not her phone. The police stated she was not speeding and applied the breaks before the collision. She did pay $800K in damage to the victim's family.

James Seth Demoor wrote:

I bet a lot of California conservatives are getting confused boners over this.

They are rising up to defend her.

In this case, I'd say that the opinion comes from knowing what the male Olympic decathlon champion could have done as a female even with hormone suppressants, so that, it seems to me, is worth knowing.

The Unkle wrote:

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Wrong.

II don't think a man/trans woman who decided at a late age to switch (and after a brutal accident --to avoid serving time??) should weigh in here.

But you should.

Got it

+1