Rojo, so what happened with Schwartz and TE? Did Adidas fire him? Hunter? Was Adidas unhappy with Hunter's progress so they let him go?
Rojo, so what happened with Schwartz and TE? Did Adidas fire him? Hunter? Was Adidas unhappy with Hunter's progress so they let him go?
*mic drop*
RunnerConnection wrote:
Wow, there are a lot of folks on here speculating this or that about this entire situation with Coach Tinman, Tinman Elite and Drew. Here are the facts because I feel this needs to be shared to stop all the BS comments on this thread. Time to rock-n-roll!
People need to realize that their words have consequences. We have Tinman’s wife posting on here, clearly hurt by what everyone is saying about her husband. Tom has inspired countless athletes, especially at the high school level, and he deserves the respect of the running community.
With that said, Drew is a young guy who makes mistakes. That doesn’t make the situation any better, but it puts things into perspective. He has some growing up to do—but just like Tom, he has inspired countless young runners. And for that I respect him.
booooom wrote:
*mic drop*
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Don't know how many of you saw the Dyestat interview with Jim Ryun, Alan Webb, Drew Hunter and Hobbs Kessler a few weeks ago (definitely worth a look), but during a segment where the guys asked each other questions, Drew asked Ryun "when do you know it's time to hang it up?" I thought that was perhaps very telling. Maybe he was as frustrated as others here are about his progress. But I certainly feel he is very talented and needs a coach who can devote more time and energy to him. I hope this happens because it would be a shame for him to pack it in now.
RunnerConnection wrote:
Wow, there are a lot of folks on here speculating this or that about this entire situation with Coach Tinman, Tinman Elite and Drew. Here are the facts because I feel this needs to be shared to stop all the BS comments on this thread. Time to rock-n-roll!
Fact: Coach Tinman did not leave Tinman Elite. He was told over the phone that his services were no longer needed. The team voted by the raise of a hand "yes" or "no". He was told that the team voted unanimously "no we don't want his coaching services". Not every athlete on the team really agreed to this, but they had no choice because it was not an anonymous voting system. The guys that wanted to stay with Coach Tinman had no choice, but to agree, because they would not have the financial backing to continue their running career. Ya, what a shame! Here is the dinger, they never gave Coach Tinman a reason for letting him go. Even Drew never told his Coach. How unprofessional on their part...pretty sad.
Fact: I have a hunch that the Tinman guys didn't like their Head Coach giving them friendly reminders in their team meetings to quit the F- bombing posts and inappropriate gestures on their social media. Any Head Coach for any team wants their team to display a good image to the public...especially a semi-pro team that is popular with today's youth. You certainly don't see other professional running teams doing this. But no Tinman Elite runners think its cool, hip, to flip the bird and use profanity on your social medial posts. As a parent I wouldn't want my kid to follow Tinman Elite just for that one reason.
Fact: Coach Tinman never had a contract with Adidas!
Fact: Coach Tinman has nothing to do with the Hammer & Axe training plans or $$ gained from them. They are cookie cutter plans derived from what they have learned from Tinman. Do you really think these guys have the credentials to Coach your middle school kids or high school kids. Heck no! Tinman has credentials and proven experience with results. PhD in Health & Human Performance/Exercise Science, USATF Level 3 in: Youth Specialization and Endurance Coaching, plus Level 5 IAAF Elite Endurance Certification and former collegiate coaching. None of the Tinman Elite runners have any experience coaching, nor credentials. They are using a dummied down version of Coach Tinman's training just to make $. They were told to not use Coach Tinman's training methods for their personal gains financially.
Fact: Coach Tinman coached most of the Tinman guys for free for one year before being asked to relocate to Colorado and be the Head Coach for Tinman Elite. He was paid a small monthly salary of a couple thousand, compared to what other Head Coaches make, which is $75k to $300K or more. Yes, I agree he should of had a formal contract before making the move from Idaho to Colorado.
Fact: Drew paid his Coach for a very small salary (a beginners teacher salary) and they did have a good relationship, until a certain individual got involved. Jealousy might be the evil doer behind all this.
Fact: Drew has a big heart and helped finance several of the Tinman Elite guys to help this club get started. Coach Tinman gave up a lot financially to help in the cause too. Unselfish acts by both.
Fact: Coach Tinman has not received one penny for all the Tinman merchandise sold. He encouraged the guys to start selling merchandise to help support their needs such as: strength coach fees, massage therapy, nutritionist, chiro fees, traveling, entry, the list is endless. They needed something to help them pay for all the little things that make a difference to get to the next level like the big dawgs in the running world Nike, New Balance, Brooks Beast etc.
Fact: Coach Tinman did not control the Tinman Elite. They controlled him. He had no say in what meets to attend, where to stay, when to arrive , training places, etc. So if Coach Tinman advised them to run in this meet or go here to train...it was planned then oops all of sudden the boys didn't want to attend at the last minute. Coach Tinman would make arrangements to travel for training camps, show up, and then some of the guys would change their plans at a moments notice....not show up.
Fact: Coach Tinman has helped Joan for many years with her training plans. He gave her endless free advise on a moments notice either via email or a phone call to adjust training for her team and individual runners on her high school team. His help aided in her team success when she needed it. Yes there is nothing wrong from learning from others. It helps you become a better coach. Coach Tinman NEVER charged Joan any money for his help.
Fact: Coach Tinman's Elite runners don't always get injured. Have you ever thought that other contributing factors outside of training methods, play into how runners may get injured? Not following coaches training plan, sleep, running in meets not advised, running hard on easy days, not following through with physical therapy or massage therapy, doing other sporting activities that could cause you to get injured, or most importantly lack of proper nutrition. This team paved their own destiny, by doing what they wanted and when they wanted to do this or that.
Fact: Coach Tinman does not go behind High School Coaches to coach athletes on their teams. He asks the athletes parents to talk to the Head Coach first to make sure there will be no conflicts. If there are conflicts he does not Coach the athlete. Many times he ends up talking and working with the Head Coach for the benefit of the entire team. He charges a fair amount just like any other coaching service. He has to pay his bills just like you and support his family!
Fact: A few of you call Coach Tinman a dick based on you listening to his podcasts or watching his video's. The man has a PhD, he is full of knowledge and when he gets on a roll, yes he likes to share and educate just like Vigil. How on earth can you judge a person without even meeting them? Coach Tinman gets endless emails and telephone calls from coaches, parents, and runners from all over the world and responds to them. I would not exactly call him a dick for doing this. Don't judge anyone until you have met them in person or talked to them.
I'm furious and completely disappointed in the Tinman Elite team and what you have done not only to Coach "Tinman" Schwartz, but to my entire family. You took advantage of him, you used him and abused him. You took his name "Tinman" which was well known before you even existed and profit $$$. Heck, you didn't even give our family a small % of what you profit off his name, which is unethical. I myself wanted to share this information because the truth needs to be told. I'm tired of people bashing and speculating this and that. I guess we as a family learned a valuable lesson, that is to never trust a bunch of 20 year old's and relocate without a solid contract backed by a lawyer. We will move on with our lives, as you will too. I just ask that you NEVER do this to another Coach...the way you did this to my husband and my family. It was wrong, unprofessional, immature and completely petty. You still have not given my husband ONE reason as to why you let him go. It certainly has nothing to do with your performances. The majority of you guys have run PR's under my husbands guidance.
Lastly, Drew I sure wished you would of stuck to your promise of continuing to work with Coach Tinman. My husband believed in you and we moved to Colorado to support you! You distanced yourself from him, blamed him for your performance when you did not do the little things needed to take care of yourself, you certainly didn't listen to his advise, and trained differently then what he prescribed for you. You were also influenced by your buddy, the media and your Mom. My advise: Have a growth mindset, make your own decisions, act like a professional runner, and focus on YOUR FUTURE, not the Tinman Elite Team. Control your own destiny or someone else will!
Best,
Tammy Schwartz
Thank you Tammy. Your husband and family deserved better. Wish you the best.
“Now you know the rest of the story.”
This makes Tinman Elite look REALLY bad....
Wishing the best for Tinman and his family.
Hold up: was that really coach Tinman's wife? If so, LetsRun is LEGIT.
Integrity at its best. This is Tinman's wife! I had to post my feelings and the truth because I don't want to see this happen to other Coaches out there. It was wrong and could of been handled differently.
Runjumpthrow,etc wrote:
Don't know how many of you saw the Dyestat interview with Jim Ryun, Alan Webb, Drew Hunter and Hobbs Kessler a few weeks ago (definitely worth a look), but during a segment where the guys asked each other questions, Drew asked Ryun "when do you know it's time to hang it up?" I thought that was perhaps very telling. Maybe he was as frustrated as others here are about his progress. But I certainly feel he is very talented and needs a coach who can devote more time and energy to him. I hope this happens because it would be a shame for him to pack it in now.
well im sure karen hunter has been a severe buzz killer on hunter. she is prob in control of all his financial deals his "agent" etc.....i would bet she was the one who started the seeds of doubt and betrayal to this "buddy" of drew, and then it slowly spread like a cancer. now the seeds have grown to huge trees of bullsh*t and the LR trolls are out for blood on tinman...JUST what she hoped for and orchestrated.
again watch drew run like sh*t with coach karen at the helm
Good for you Tammy. The Tinman is a lucky man.
it seems like a decision that was made or at least in the works for months and they have been silent on the issue as it has clearly created chaos for some of those involved. one of their supposed core values is transparency and creating a connection with their fanbase yet they have been carrying on like delusional social media influencers when in reality they are still a small brand. either way i dont see how this is a good look for them and interested to see how they address things when they decide to get around to it.
RunnerConnection wrote:
Wow, there are a lot of folks on here speculating this or that about this entire situation with Coach Tinman, Tinman Elite and Drew. Here are the facts because I feel this needs to be shared to stop all the BS comments on this thread. Time to rock-n-roll!
Fact: Coach Tinman did not leave Tinman Elite. He was told over the phone that his services were no longer needed. The team voted by the raise of a hand "yes" or "no". He was told that the team voted unanimously "no we don't want his coaching services". Not every athlete on the team really agreed to this, but they had no choice because it was not an anonymous voting system. The guys that wanted to stay with Coach Tinman had no choice, but to agree, because they would not have the financial backing to continue their running career. Ya, what a shame! Here is the dinger, they never gave Coach Tinman a reason for letting him go. Even Drew never told his Coach. How unprofessional on their part...pretty sad.
Fact: I have a hunch that the Tinman guys didn't like their Head Coach giving them friendly reminders in their team meetings to quit the F- bombing posts and inappropriate gestures on their social media. Any Head Coach for any team wants their team to display a good image to the public...especially a semi-pro team that is popular with today's youth. You certainly don't see other professional running teams doing this. But no Tinman Elite runners think its cool, hip, to flip the bird and use profanity on your social medial posts. As a parent I wouldn't want my kid to follow Tinman Elite just for that one reason.
Fact: Coach Tinman never had a contract with Adidas!
Fact: Coach Tinman has nothing to do with the Hammer & Axe training plans or $$ gained from them. They are cookie cutter plans derived from what they have learned from Tinman. Do you really think these guys have the credentials to Coach your middle school kids or high school kids. Heck no! Tinman has credentials and proven experience with results. PhD in Health & Human Performance/Exercise Science, USATF Level 3 in: Youth Specialization and Endurance Coaching, plus Level 5 IAAF Elite Endurance Certification and former collegiate coaching. None of the Tinman Elite runners have any experience coaching, nor credentials. They are using a dummied down version of Coach Tinman's training just to make $. They were told to not use Coach Tinman's training methods for their personal gains financially.
Fact: Coach Tinman coached most of the Tinman guys for free for one year before being asked to relocate to Colorado and be the Head Coach for Tinman Elite. He was paid a small monthly salary of a couple thousand, compared to what other Head Coaches make, which is $75k to $300K or more. Yes, I agree he should of had a formal contract before making the move from Idaho to Colorado.
Fact: Drew paid his Coach for a very small salary (a beginners teacher salary) and they did have a good relationship, until a certain individual got involved. Jealousy might be the evil doer behind all this.
Fact: Drew has a big heart and helped finance several of the Tinman Elite guys to help this club get started. Coach Tinman gave up a lot financially to help in the cause too. Unselfish acts by both.
Fact: Coach Tinman has not received one penny for all the Tinman merchandise sold. He encouraged the guys to start selling merchandise to help support their needs such as: strength coach fees, massage therapy, nutritionist, chiro fees, traveling, entry, the list is endless. They needed something to help them pay for all the little things that make a difference to get to the next level like the big dawgs in the running world Nike, New Balance, Brooks Beast etc.
Fact: Coach Tinman did not control the Tinman Elite. They controlled him. He had no say in what meets to attend, where to stay, when to arrive , training places, etc. So if Coach Tinman advised them to run in this meet or go here to train...it was planned then oops all of sudden the boys didn't want to attend at the last minute. Coach Tinman would make arrangements to travel for training camps, show up, and then some of the guys would change their plans at a moments notice....not show up.
Fact: Coach Tinman has helped Joan for many years with her training plans. He gave her endless free advise on a moments notice either via email or a phone call to adjust training for her team and individual runners on her high school team. His help aided in her team success when she needed it. Yes there is nothing wrong from learning from others. It helps you become a better coach. Coach Tinman NEVER charged Joan any money for his help.
Fact: Coach Tinman's Elite runners don't always get injured. Have you ever thought that other contributing factors outside of training methods, play into how runners may get injured? Not following coaches training plan, sleep, running in meets not advised, running hard on easy days, not following through with physical therapy or massage therapy, doing other sporting activities that could cause you to get injured, or most importantly lack of proper nutrition. This team paved their own destiny, by doing what they wanted and when they wanted to do this or that.
Fact: Coach Tinman does not go behind High School Coaches to coach athletes on their teams. He asks the athletes parents to talk to the Head Coach first to make sure there will be no conflicts. If there are conflicts he does not Coach the athlete. Many times he ends up talking and working with the Head Coach for the benefit of the entire team. He charges a fair amount just like any other coaching service. He has to pay his bills just like you and support his family!
Fact: A few of you call Coach Tinman a dick based on you listening to his podcasts or watching his video's. The man has a PhD, he is full of knowledge and when he gets on a roll, yes he likes to share and educate just like Vigil. How on earth can you judge a person without even meeting them? Coach Tinman gets endless emails and telephone calls from coaches, parents, and runners from all over the world and responds to them. I would not exactly call him a dick for doing this. Don't judge anyone until you have met them in person or talked to them.
I'm furious and completely disappointed in the Tinman Elite team and what you have done not only to Coach "Tinman" Schwartz, but to my entire family. You took advantage of him, you used him and abused him. You took his name "Tinman" which was well known before you even existed and profit $$$. Heck, you didn't even give our family a small % of what you profit off his name, which is unethical. I myself wanted to share this information because the truth needs to be told. I'm tired of people bashing and speculating this and that. I guess we as a family learned a valuable lesson, that is to never trust a bunch of 20 year old's and relocate without a solid contract backed by a lawyer. We will move on with our lives, as you will too. I just ask that you NEVER do this to another Coach...the way you did this to my husband and my family. It was wrong, unprofessional, immature and completely petty. You still have not given my husband ONE reason as to why you let him go. It certainly has nothing to do with your performances. The majority of you guys have run PR's under my husbands guidance.
Lastly, Drew I sure wished you would of stuck to your promise of continuing to work with Coach Tinman. My husband believed in you and we moved to Colorado to support you! You distanced yourself from him, blamed him for your performance when you did not do the little things needed to take care of yourself, you certainly didn't listen to his advise, and trained differently then what he prescribed for you. You were also influenced by your buddy, the media and your Mom. My advise: Have a growth mindset, make your own decisions, act like a professional runner, and focus on YOUR FUTURE, not the Tinman Elite Team. Control your own destiny or someone else will!
Best,
Tammy Schwartz
One of the best post I've seen on lrc in years! At the end of the day, these are adults in their mid 20s that still act like and have the maturity of college kids, sometimes guys like that never grow up.
Ironically right now they probably think of themselves as great ethical people. The day they grow up is the day they will look back at this with regret and embarrassment.
Here is a LRC post from Tom Tinman from 15 years ago. It would seem so wrong for those folks to use the name that was clearly his. Also, look at his willingness to learn. Gosh, just the thought of the bad Karma.
re: Mihaly Igloi
Tinman
15 years ago
Anyone training under Laslo Tabori that reads letsrun.com? I'd like to know how Laslo schedules training in order to compare it to how his coach, Mihaly Igoi, trained him. His website shows and example week, somewhat vague, which differs a little. I am wondering if Laslo learned over the years that a different approach, modified Igloi, worked better. I ask this because I know that Bob Schul modified it some to fit his idea of what worked best. Thanks. Tinman
“The game is out there. And it’s either play or get played.”
-Omar, The Wire
Tinman got played
well tammy i hope thee "tinman" doesnt hang them up because of this. i know its easy to say but in the end of the day your husband is bada$$ and karen and the entitled brats will have to eat their own huge serving of humble pie.
my dad coached hs cross for free for 4 yrs and was starting to build a solid program. the year before he took over they were about to axe the program, and his first year he took a team to state, 2nd year we got 3rd place and we lost first place by 7 points it was that close. next year 2nd, and his last year the team was looking for a 1st place, but parents and the like started their bullsh*t. my dad didnt have a coaching degree, no credentials, wasnt a teacher etc etc...the kids because of the parents mutinied and ran like sh*t. the next summer the kids didnt run with my dad but instead ran with the assistant coach who was the main culprit. when the season started they made a rule that you could only coach if you had a college degree or you taught in the school system.
my dad has never recovered from that betrayal. he hates everything about running now and coaching was his pride and joy.
now almost ten years later they are again about to axe the sport because they cant field a boys and girls team. got to love them cancerous people
Honest question...
Why do we spend so much time talking about a dude who has run 1:48 to 13:17. He a lower tier national class athlete in this day and age. I understand all the marketing has created a stir and what not but there is literally nothing to validate continued interest in this $hit show of drama.
any truth here wrote:
kipudgy wrote:
This is correct. LOL that mummy thinks she’s a better coach than Tom. They f***ed him over real good.
No, Tinman f***ed over the athletes. They've been hurt constantly and they've run like sh*t. He got fired for poor performance. The athletes didn't owe him a damn thing.
Tinman's entire career is built on the back of Drew Hunter's success and nothing else. Tinman should forever be thankful for Drew Hunter.
That’s where you’re wrong. Twas the students, not the teacher. Hopefully he sues those phucks for all the cash they’ve made profiting from his name and training.
highhoppingworm wrote:
Honest question...
Why do we spend so much time talking about a dude who has run 1:48 to 13:17. He a lower tier national class athlete in this day and age. I understand all the marketing has created a stir and what not but there is literally nothing to validate continued interest in this $hit show of drama.
honest question....why is a 20 min 5k tool think his opinion on this matters.
wait let me guess
you ran at a mid major d1 school, you ran 14 flat 5k, graduated with honors in a STEM program and got accepted into a top tier ivy league, you make $250k a year and your wife is one of the top super models.
As someone who has been royally burned in a similar fashion, all I can say is that karma is a big ole (female) junkyard dog and she has a loooong memory....
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year