Jack Daniels -- Was He A First??

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  • jackdanielsthegreat

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 04/22/2021 2:54pm EDT

    So Jack Daniels' running formula is basically as follows:

    - VO2 max - 800s & 1ks, he describes this as hard running, 8/10

    - Lactate Threshold - 3-4 miles of comfortably hard running, not as hard as above obviously because it's more of a sustained effort

    - Running Economy - 200s, 300s, 400s; fast but not hard b/c they're short

    - Easy running - all of the great benefits, stronger heart, more mitochondria, more capillaries, etc.

    Strides - fast -- but not all out -- 20 sec bursts usually done after easy running

    I love JD. He is a great coach. But I don't get how this is unique. I mean, the science is, but If you take away the science and just look at the content, haven't people been doing tempos, VO2 max intervals, short reps and easy running for years? I feel like runners , most at least , have always followed a structure similar to this.

    Thoughts?

  • Schweddy

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 04/22/2021 3:09pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    He just gave the zones names.

  • registered

    coach

    Member since 07/01/2002.

    12,961 posts. Last post 3 days ago.
    3 years ago 04/22/2021 4:32pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    OP are you familiar with other popular coaches (Gerschler, Igloi, Lydiard, Cerutty) and methods that were used to train distance runners in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s?

  • registered

    EZ10Miler

    Member since 10/24/2017.

    1,203 posts. Last post 11 hours ago.
    3 years ago 04/22/2021 4:55pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    No, he was not the first, he did name and categorize these different workouts and such. I guess he might have been the first to explain why these different paces were important?

    When I was in HS the coach would send us on a 5M run and tell us to "pick it up towards the end", or he'd tell us to run X distance at race pace, or mile pace or a couple of clicks slower than race pace.

    There's very little new under the sun when it comes to training distance runners (other than the drugs). Read up on Bill Squires and the stuff those Boston Track Club guys were doing, until you go back to the 50's and early 60's all the stuff will have a familiar ring to it.

  • high school xc coach

    Member since 05/06/2020.

    6,771 posts. Last post 8 hours ago.
    3 years ago 04/22/2021 5:04pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    What he did was write a really good, well organized book with easy to reference pacing charts.

    without those charts, that book doesn't even get a 2nd edition.

  • registered

    coach_rodney

    Member since 06/28/2015.

    34 posts. Last post 1 week ago.
    3 years ago 04/22/2021 5:10pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    He was the first to put it into a user-friendly, easy to understand like manual for the gen pop. Others have tried to do this but weren't as successful as Daniels has been.

  • high school xc coach

    Member since 05/06/2020.

    6,771 posts. Last post 8 hours ago.
    3 years ago 04/22/2021 5:10pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    I fell into coaching cross country because nobody else wanted the job. My brother told me to order that book and it was the best thing I ever did. I'm a numbers guy, so even when I didn't understand what I was doing, why I was doing it, etc., I could always go to the numbers to guide me through. I've since come to understand the purpose of what I was doing through Daniels and many of the other great coaches and communicators. This website, along with real life experience has helped to tie it all in together.

    But if I didn't have Daniels and those numbers in the beginning, I don't know if I ever would have internalized what I was doing.

  • oldschoollrc

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 04/22/2021 5:51pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    I feel like he gave it more of a scientific basis. Able to describe why certain workouts are useful, and providing references to exercise physiology studies that investigated that aspect of things.

  • Jack Daniels Calculator

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 04/22/2021 6:11pm EDT
    re: jackdanielsthegreat

    jackdanielsthegreat wrote:

    - VO2 max - 800s & 1ks, he describes this as hard running, 8/10

    Thoughts?

    No, on the contrary, taking the Heart Rate to above 95% HRmax, per Daniels' definition of his VO2max "Intervals", corresponds to a RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) level of 18-20 (extremely hard to exhaustion)" on the Borg Scale RPE (being significantly above the classically accepted "Anaerobic Threshold").

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