What minimum mile time indicates sub 40min 10k time no matter the milage and training ?

way back when, in a small town wrote:

I definitely knew guys in high school who were right around 5 minutes for a mile who couldn't have run 10K, much less run it in less than 40 minutes.

There’s no way someone running a 5 min mile can’t go out and jog a sub40 10k. The average pace for a sub40 10k is only 6:26/mi which should be significantly slower than a 5min milers threshold pace.

it is possible to break a 5 min mile training less than 15 miles a week. and no concern whatsoever with distance longer than a mile, or longer distance related pacing. and no history of distance training. in which case breaking a 40 isnt all that likely. at least with out a few tries and probably there would be a use for a rabbit.

it is also possible to break a 40 in 10k with out breaking 6;00 in the mile while training or racing during the season before breaking that 40. for example if coming out of injury you were to simply avoid breaking 6 in the mile. the cardio would be there to break the 6. but you wouldnt need to in order to break the 40.

plenty of pe runners in high school and jr high can run a mile between 6;00 and 5;00 and not run either the 5k or 10k at 6;27 pace. especially without a rabbit.

If your frame of reference is based on being a jv boy runner or a varsity girl runner you may doubt my facts. but.... if your frame of reference is a swim team.... you will laugh when you see the faces of people who might have an alright 200 but they are not getting to 5k

spinozza wrote:

There’s no way someone running a 5 min mile can’t go out and jog a sub40 10k. The average pace for a sub40 10k is only 6:26/mi which should be significantly slower than a 5min milers threshold pace.

+1

I have to agree with you here. I mean a5min mile person will have to run about 90seconds slower to crack that 40min 10k. Tt could even be a tempo for them?

Im-not-a-scientist wrote:

spinozza wrote:

There’s no way someone running a 5 min mile can’t go out and jog a sub40 10k. The average pace for a sub40 10k is only 6:26/mi which should be significantly slower than a 5min milers threshold pace.

+1

I have to agree with you here. I mean a5min mile person will have to run about 90seconds slower to crack that 40min 10k. Tt could even be a tempo for them?

Some people are just too fast twitch to run sub 40 even if they can run 5 flat.

Exhibit A:

4:39.0 1500 guy who can't run sub 19 for the 5K -

I think I ran 39-low the first time under 40 in April going back a ways. Then ran 18:40ish for 5k a month later. Then mid-5:30s for a mile time trial in the summer. Was running decent mileage.

The question is more/less how fast you need to be at the mile to be able to run sub-40 off of low mileage. 5:00ish is probably right. Can't see someone who can run 4:59 on 20 miles/week not being able to go out and run 39:xx. Sub-5 = 35:xx. But not if you're not running the mileage needed for it.

when i first took my niece to the track she was in kindergarden. she knew she could beat me with ease. we did it first her way. the race was 1 full lap. i let her take the lead. in less than 50 yards she was fading hard. since she went all out. i said wait wait i give up you win. and we walked back to the starting line. then i said lets try it one more time. but this time you have to stay behind me until i say now. she played along. and we went out much slower. and she did not fade. but made it all the way around the track. and on the final straightaway with about 40 yards to go i said- go for it now. beat me now. and she "did".

when a person who has had the goal of doing a 10k , and has put in the workouts for the 10k, does the 10 k, they likely take the first 2 miles out way differently than a person who has has never done it, and never trained any distance. and maybe the low mileage cross training mile guy knows vaguely to take it out a bit easy. and he's got an all out 5;00 mile. so when he takes it out and averages a 5;40 mile one he's still feeling pretty good. and if he even looks at his split he thinks piece of cake i've got this made,,, etc etc... but if he had paced behind some steady ready old guy at 6;20 you know that last mile and 1/2 would be a whole different game..... somewhere between mile one and mile 5 the unprepared first timer is going to learn that pacing might matter. and if someone takes his splits for him and shows them to him after the race, etc etc.

but the average fun run 10k might have mile marks. and nothing else. and the average first timer is going to go by feel based on totally wrong experience. you give them a rabbit and what they can do is way faster than what they will going by "feel". but near all the unprepared novice milers are going to pace like total crap. then its just a matter of how hard they fade. everyone whos done a 10k knows there is some advantage to being familiar with paces related to your actual 10 k abilities. and when you arent geting any pace feedback until the first mile is done. unless you know the course and make sure you know for example where 50 meters and 100 meters and 200 meters and 400 meters are. a novice going to go out way to fast. 5 min miler might break 5 min pace the first 400 and not feel a thing. for a total novice its not the same game as a 50 plus master who knows his zones and makes sure he doesnt go sub 6;10 any of the 10k, its not even just the slow twitch fast twitch thing. its the pace like a dumbazz thing.

Cavorty wrote:

HRE wrote:

Technically you'd need 6:30 or so but that's a bit unrealistic. I did a mid 32 and my best mile was 4:48, about 25 seconds faster than the per mile 10 km pace. So I'd think someone who really developed their endurance could inch under 40 with about a 6:00 best mile. The catch here being that if you develop your endurance that well you're likely to be much faster than 6:00 at the mile.

I'm 64, and I think if I could run a 6:00 off no speed work, I'd get very close to 40. I'd say 5:50 would definitely do it.

Sounds about right. A younger runner who has enough endurance to run under 40:00 will have enough to run a mile well under 6:00 but as you age and your speed diminishes getting under 6:00 becomes more of an issue even with great endurance.

Why would anyone needs "mileage" or "training" to run sub 40 10K?

spinozza wrote:

way back when, in a small town wrote:

I definitely knew guys in high school who were right around 5 minutes for a mile who couldn't have run 10K, much less run it in less than 40 minutes.

There’s no way someone running a 5 min mile can’t go out and jog a sub40 10k. The average pace for a sub40 10k is only 6:26/mi which should be significantly slower than a 5min milers threshold pace.

6:26 pace is 28.7% slower than 5:00

When I was a non runner, I ran just short of a mile for the "6 minute run" in the Presidential Fitness Test in high school PE in 10th grade. I would have been around 6:02 for the mile (on a dirt 440 yard track in street shoes). Could I go only 28.7% slower for 10K, which would be 48:14? Not even close. I could actually only run 54:xx in a 10K road race, and I was going all out.

My 10K pace was actually 45.4% slower than my mile pace. If you go proportionally, it would have been a 4:25 mile needed to go 40:00 10K for me as an untrained non-runner. So I'd say a 4:25 mile would just about assure a 40:00 10K for someone totally untrained to run, but somehow talented enough to run 4:25 on no running training.

Why would a non-runner kid like me be running a 10K road race? It was a big event in my city, and I did it every year as a cool/fun thing to do on no training. I wasn't actually unfit though. I was young aspiring cycling, riding my bike close to 10 hrs per week then.

*cyclist

I'm looking at my old running logs right now.

I saw that when I was able to run a 5:39 mile, I just barely broke 20 minutes on a hilly summer 5K race (19:59). There is no way I'm sub 40 in a 10K.

I then saw that a 5:21 mile allowed me to run a 10K in 39:30 a few months later.

5:01 mile put me at a 38:20 10K.

I'd say sub 4:50 mile if we're talking someone who really runs little milage.

6:04

19:12

39:52

1:28:42

3:07:11

40mpw and 18 months of running. I can't run fast miles, don't know why, don't know how. However I can hold 6:40 or 50 for 13 miles through will power.

Especially this high school xc coach saying "4:40".

Granted I'm older, now 59, but I routinely run 38:45 for 10km and would be hard pressed to break 5:46 on a track going all out.

HRE is spot on. This high school coach . . .I pity his runners.

Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:

The personal anecdotes are interesting, but why has no one yet actually recounted the scientific evidence, per Jack Daniels?

The aerobic power (i.e., VDOT) of a 40min 10k is 51.9, corresponding to a 1mile time equivalent of 5:39.

I like this study here on energy system contributions to max efforts over difference distances:

I'm not an expert on the methods so can't say how much confidence to put in these numbers, but it says even the 1500 is still ~16% anaerobic. That seems like a pretty good-sized chunk. Assuming 10k is nearly 100%, I guess I would not expect 1500 ability in the range of the times mentioned in this thread (5:00-5:45 or so) to be very good at predicting a yes/no on <40 10k.

Interestingly this study also says the 200 meters is 29% aerobic.

This other one here says 1500 is 77% aerobic in men and 86% in women (in the other study they were all men):

I think a lot of people aren't understanding the question. I'm pretty sure the OP is asking what current mile time guarantees the ability to break 40 minutes at that moment without any consideration for their current or future training.

Obviously all 4:00 milers could break 40 minutes in the 10k with ease any day of the week. On the other hand, some but certainly not all 6:00 milers could break 40.

I think the answer to the OP's question is somewhere in the 4:40 range.

I just saw high school xc coach's post, yes that's exactly what the OP is asking.

I think somewhere around 4:40 guarantees a sub 40.