What minimum mile time indicates sub 40min 10k time no matter the milage and training ?

Prolly 5:20

I think it would be very possible to design a season that got me under 5;00 mile slightly, or more likely someone with less pace experience under 5;00 slightly, and still have it hard, unlikely and a bit dangerous to try to break 40 in the 10k. especially without a pace rabbit.

you can read plenty of local results, in regular race years, and see decent high school milers sucking at fun run 10ks. most of which i would assume would be much faster at 10k if they strickly followed a pace rabbit and just sucker punched the finish instead of went out way too fast by miler feel.

First time I did it I had been running about 1.5 years and was 37 years of age. I ran a 5:26 mile (road race) in late July, in August I ran a 19:10 5k, and in October I ran a 39:20 10k. At the time the 5k and 10k were PR, I have since run faster. I've never run another mile race. It was very painful experience.

I ran a 39:59 and my fastest mile at the time was a 5:47.

It was part of a 4 x mile workout so not sure how much faster i would have been since i never raced a mile.

But, i was running 60-80 miles a week consistently for 9 years at that point.

Definitely don't have to be that close to 5 minutes. I never broke 5 in high school. Got back into running in my late 30s and ran sub 39, and later sub 37, still without a sub 5 mile.

My guess would say minimum mile speed for sneaking under 40 is around 5:45 or so. Probably couldn't be much slower than that.

one of my favorite runners to talk about from my HS days was a 21/48 guy who ran the 1600 at dual meets because his team had a few comparable sprinters but no distance squad at all. he ran like 4:50 and i'm not convinced he could/has ever run 6 miles at once.

for normal people running low mileage, maybe like 5:12

I definitely knew guys in high school who were right around 5 minutes for a mile who couldn't have run 10K, much less run it in less than 40 minutes.

not that this is surprising or interesting, but I had a age ~45 mile PR of ~5:52 or so [took a really good day to solo TT under 6m, only got it a handful of times], and I was never under 42 mins much in a 10k race

I could sneak under 20 in a 5k but no way could I do it back-back

flvmmox wrote:

for normal people running low mileage, maybe like 5:12

I've run 25 MPW, gone sub 5:12 a few times, and still haven't run a 19:59 5K or better (let alone be able to maintain that pace for double the distance).

I am better at the 200/400 than at the 1500/mile, but I was nowhere near a 21/48 in the sprints.

justanotheranecdote wrote:

Definitely don't have to be that close to 5 minutes. I never broke 5 in high school. Got back into running in my late 30s and ran sub 39, and later sub 37, still without a sub 5 mile.

My guess would say minimum mile speed for sneaking under 40 is around 5:45 or so. Probably couldn't be much slower than that.

This is my experience at 35yo as an ex soccer player. I couldn't imagine going under 40 mins without having built up to 50 to 60mpw including a faster workout and longish run. 1h28m half came beforehand.

I ran a lot of 10Ks between 38 and 40 minutes after I turned 40 and took up competitive running. I was running about 35-40 mpw and ran a coupe of mile races between 5:10 and 5:20. My 5K s were generally in the mid to high 18s. I would say that you should be able to run a mile around 5:25 if you can run a 10K under 40:00, and are training less than about 40 mpw.

~5:48

mileage not so important.

most runners at that level and trying for 40 haven't done much sustained quality workouts either. most have the cardiovascular capability, need to work the legs. and press a bit w/some 6:40 miles.

5:27, 19:03, and 40:30 (hilly course) here. Would have been (slightly) under 40 for sure on a flatter course.

That was on about 40 mpw, fwiw.

The personal anecdotes are interesting, but why has no one yet actually recounted the scientific evidence, per Jack Daniels?

The aerobic power (i.e., VDOT) of a 40min 10k is 51.9, corresponding to a 1mile time equivalent of 5:39.

Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:

The personal anecdotes are interesting, but why has no one yet actually recounted the scientific evidence, per Jack Daniels?

The aerobic power (i.e., VDOT) of a 40min 10k is 51.9, corresponding to a 1mile time equivalent of 5:39.

the question in the op is odd. I'm not reading it as what time do you need to be able to run in the mile to be able to break 40.

the question that im reading here is how fast would you have to be in the mile to where you would 100% be able to break 40 in the 10k. Like we know there are 5:30 milers who can and can't do it. There are even 5:00 milers who can't do it. But is there a 4:40 miler in existence who can't break 40 for a 10k? 4:50? 4:30?

Basically, what mile speed is so good, that no matter how poor your long distance endurance is, you will still be able to break 40 for the 10k.

high school xc coach wrote:

Basically, what mile speed is so good, that no matter how poor your long distance endurance is, you will still be able to break 40 for the 10k.

That question is difficult to answer. You could assume breaking 40 is going to require enough training volume (mileage), and a certain mile time is going to require some significant enough amount of training volume, where the two meet. 4:40?

Technically you'd need 6:30 or so but that's a bit unrealistic. I did a mid 32 and my best mile was 4:48, about 25 seconds faster than the per mile 10 km pace. So I'd think someone who really developed their endurance could inch under 40 with about a 6:00 best mile. The catch here being that if you develop your endurance that well you're likely to be much faster than 6:00 at the mile.

Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:

high school xc coach wrote:

Basically, what mile speed is so good, that no matter how poor your long distance endurance is, you will still be able to break 40 for the 10k.

That question is difficult to answer. You could assume breaking 40 is going to require enough training volume (mileage), and a certain mile time is going to require some significant enough amount of training volume, where the two meet. 4:40?

yeah. i think somewhere between 4:40 and 4:50. but i don't know. anecdotally, I do know that 5:00 isn't assured of getting the job done.