Nowak’s 8:21 Steeple Invalid: EKU puts start line in wrong spot.

Along with some collegiate athletes and Tinman running what they thought were PBs across the board. Imagine not smashing your PB in this race...

This is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard of. Just ludicrous

He tried to make it sound like the race was long, but the first split seems pretty fast me given it's supposed to be a long 200m right?

That's a big bummer. It must have been fairly close since it wasn't obvious it wasn't right. Like less than 10 seconds off of accurate. 10 seconds would be like 60 meters which would put you in a weird position on the track.

hemorrhoid wrote:

http://files.milesplit.us/live_results/420957/index.html

Along with some collegiate athletes and Tinman running what they thought were PBs across the board. Imagine not smashing your PB in this race...

We all know Tinman is overrated. Coleman bragged about 8:36 flat 3k two months ago....now “8:31” steeple. Berritua can barely break 9:00 most steeples. Barraza is good but the other two were red flags something was up from the start

How did this happen??? How as the track company or EKU staff member do you not notice the steeple start line has moved halfway down the straight?

This track has the pit cut off the most distance possible on a steeple setup making the start be the furthest back possible. Very damaging to the athletes

I’d hate to be the Mondo track contractor when the EKU coach calls later today.

I don’t care much about Tinman “Elite” as they will have other chances and plenty of time before the Trials. The college athletes are the ones who are in a tough spot for Conference/Regionals.

Are the times for the women’s steeple also invalid?

Here’s my theory:

The steeple pit is on the turn right after the common finish, which is a little bit atypical, but it just changes the finish of the steeplechase to the opposite end. Based on a satellite image, there appears to be a steeple start line about 60m back from the common finish. I also found a tour video of the track on EKU’s website, which I paused and took a screenshot of the steeple start line which is clearly labeled.

Track satellite image with steeple start line circled:

https://ibb.co/0FHxykL

Labeled steeple start line:

https://ibb.co/C9Wzg2N

So in Craig’s Instagram post, he says he was notified that the track installation company put the steeple start line in the wrong place. I call BS on that because the start line appears to be where you think it would be. That’s just a coverup for a big mess up on EKU’s part or the official starters for the race.

If the start line is in the wrong location, that would mean a couple things. First, I’m guessing their true times would be within a couple seconds of what they actually ran because the start line isn’t that far off. Second, if they started from the start line shown on the satellite image, their first splits in the race wouldn’t have been 33-36 seconds, which is exactly what you’d expect for their first true 200m of the race. Splits shown on page 22 here:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ekusports.com/documents/2021/4/18/EKU_RickE_complete_rez.pdf

So all that says that they started from the waterfall at the common finish just like they would for a 10k or something, which would cut off probably 60-80m as other posters have said.

If you look at the satellite image of the track, I’d estimate that one full steeple lap is 7-10m short of 400m. Each lane that you move inside/outside, that adds/subtracts about 7.5m for a full lap. We’re only doing this for one of the turns though, so that’d be more like 3.75m per lap. With how much is cut off by the steeple turn from lane 1, if there were a lane 0, -1, and -2, I’d estimate the steeple turn to be the equivalent of somewhere between lane -1 and lane -2, so that’s cut off around 7-10m. Multiply that by 7 full laps for the steeple chase, and that’s 49-70m short of 3000m, which is exactly where the steeple start line appears to be.

Even if the start line is in the wrong spot, if they started from the correct line, their first splits should be more like 43-46 seconds.

Update: I didn’t realize they had redone the track surface. Someone just uploaded comparison pictures of the old track vs the new track here:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10537406&page=2

The correct steeple start line is indeed missing on the new surface. Still indicates it’d be about 10 seconds short.

Still a huge oversight on the coaches’ part to not realize that the start line is in a completely different location.

I've run a few steeplechases and can't understand what you are trying to say,

If the steeplechase start is where you say it is (one the regular hone straight), then the finish line should have been on the backstretch.

Looks the the water jump is on the wrong end of the track.

60-80m short is what they are telling people. That’s 9-14 seconds. Woof.

malmo wrote:

I've run a few steeplechases and can't understand what you are trying to say,

If the steeplechase start is where you say it is (one the regular hone straight), then the finish line should have been on the backstretch.

Looks the the water jump is on the wrong end of the track.

The water jump isn’t at the “wrong” end of the track, they just have a different layout than most which means the finish line is on the backstretch just like you said. Everything else finishes at the common finish, the end of the homestretch.

jahdbisncb wrote:

malmo wrote:

I've run a few steeplechases and can't understand what you are trying to say,

If the steeplechase start is where you say it is (one the regular hone straight), then the finish line should have been on the backstretch.

Looks the the water jump is on the wrong end of the track.

The water jump isn’t at the “wrong” end of the track, they just have a different layout than most which means the finish line is on the backstretch just like you said. Everything else finishes at the common finish, the end of the homestretch.

Look at the track. The stands are and the relay exchange zone indicate the water jump is at the wrong end of ghe track.

malmo wrote:

jahdbisncb wrote:

The water jump isn’t at the “wrong” end of the track, they just have a different layout than most which means the finish line is on the backstretch just like you said. Everything else finishes at the common finish, the end of the homestretch.

Look at the track. The stands are and the relay exchange zone indicate the water jump is at the wrong end of ghe track.

You would think as an experienced steeplechaser, you would know that there is not a universal correct steeplechase layout. Some water jumps are on the inside, some on the outside, some on the opposite end of the track. If it’s on the opposite end of the track from where it typically is (or the “wrong” end as you would say), then the finish line is also flipped to the “wrong” end of the track.

Typical steeplechase layout: steeple pit on the inside of the turn after the backstretch. The start line is somewhere on the backstretch, how far back depends on how much the inside steeple turn cuts off per lap. The finish is at the end of the homestretch.

EKU steeplechase layout: steeple pit on the inside of the turn after the homestretch. The start line is somewhere on the homestretch. The finish is at the end of the backstretch.

Everything is opposite, which is still okay assuming the start line is in the correct location, which was not the case at this meet.

is there a video of these races anywhere? If tinman was there they probably got them on video.

isn't that what I said?

Part of the confusion is there are two images out there. One, "the old track" with the steeplechase start in the correct place, and the other photo of (apparently) the new track, without the steeplechase startline, so presumably the line that they started in that race was one of those waterfall lines near the finshline.

Regardless, all coaches and runners should have recognized the start of the race was wrong.