Older runners that hated/refused to run "easy" when younger- do you regret it now?

Hicham El Gernu wrote:

Not only not incorporating rest days, but also not focusing on total body development. Didn't do upper body strength training, cross training, yoga, core training, agility drills for strengthening lower leg development...all I did was run and to my horror most of it on sidewalks. I was toast after high school.

Did get under 4:30 for the mile and 10:00 for the deuce so I'm proud of that.

I think this is the case for me, I fear focusing on running too much (a very one-dimensional sport) at the expense of other athletic goals could lead to a lot of injury in the future. However, running so much leaves me too fatigued to do the supplementary things I know that I need to do

Hicham El Gernu wrote:

Not only not incorporating rest days, but also not focusing on total body development. Didn't do upper body strength training, cross training, yoga, core training, agility drills for strengthening lower leg development..

I'm only 29 but last year when I started doing a little upper body work (pullups & chinups and yoga (yoga is great for chest)) my mile repeats got 10-15 seconds faster almost instantly. I finally understood what it meant to "drive" your arms.

As for easy, its never been a huge problem for me but I would suggest doing 1-2 days on grass or dirt. Running 15 miles on dirt is like running 10 miles on pavement- the difference in how my legs feel is amazing.

Fortunately, I learned my lesson about overtraining my freshman year in college 40+ years ago. We were doing 100+ mpw, with none of them what anyone would consider easy. My race times were not only slower than my HS times, they were actually slower than what we ran during training. I lost my scholarship (big surprise there) and have trained myself ever since, with no regrets.

I never ran easy or stretched but retired from running in my fifties when I kept getting muscle tears. I don’t regret it as I am still healthy and spent my time in other ways. Interestingly, I do not have any joint issues which is what I feared most due to my family history.

Ryan Hall was interviewed recently on a running podcast. He was pretty famous for running very hard in high school. He said that a 10 mile tempo at 5:00/mile pace was a common workout for him. He said that he did not feel that training hard early in his career impacted his career trajectory significantly/negatively.

Your situation is actually a little different. The problem with your training is that you are not alternating hard with easy or introducing training that stresses/develops things like VO2 max or your efficiency at speed. Some people can handle 11 to 14 miles day in and day out without injury. However, many can't and very few would actually end up running as fast as they possibly could. The very best distance runners run very hard on their hard days and easy on their easy days.

This is a great question.

Ran D1, averaged 85-100 miles per week, 2 hard workouts a week, a long run, occasional tempo, races and all of that is a very hot and humid climate. That’s a lot hard work.

I don’t think you have to slow all the easy runs way down but I do wish I’d slowed some of them down. Take recovery days, you work your ass off when you’re at that level, sometimes go out an jog, especially if you’re feeling tired.

Otherwise don’t over think it.

amazing really wrote:

This is a great question.

Ran D1, averaged 85-100 miles per week, 2 hard workouts a week, a long run, occasional tempo, races and all of that is a very hot and humid climate. That’s a lot hard work.

I don’t think you have to slow all the easy runs way down but I do wish I’d slowed some of them down. Take recovery days, you work your ass off when you’re at that level, sometimes go out an jog, especially if you’re feeling tired.

Otherwise don’t over think it.

This is similar to the way I think about it as well. If I ran "too hard" that was just because I was 20 years old. Nothing to do with training strategy. That same mentality is also what made me love running. Let it loose, the body working, all the feels of being tireless: young and strong and unstoppable.

The thing back then is there was no internet, so "training" was just you, your team, and your coach. No GPS and we just estimated mileages. There wasn't that much to think about.

I do think that more people are training well now than before, but those of us who were lucky to have coaches who knew what they were doing -- we got what we needed without the downside of too much information. My main thought on training was if I trained harder than the next guy, I'd have a better shot of beating him. If I ran too hard then my coach would back me off a little.

I raced my best when I ran dumb, like a horse.

Precious Roy wrote:

The issue for me wasn't as much running too hard on easy days as much as it was just getting greedy and pushing the envelope too much when things were going well. I did a summer of 100 mpw and was really fit in the fall for marathon training. I was crushing it in workouts and shorter prep races. I did a 20+ mi run with a guy who was way faster than me, but was training for his first marathon. We pushed the pace the last few miles and did the last three mi in the 5:40s. I felt great but ended up with a stress fracture for all my efforts.

Agree on this. The hardest thing is not going easy, but avoiding RIPPING workouts that shouldn't be red-zone efforts when you are feeling awesome. Extremely counter productive because a too hard workout can be way more damaging than a race.

idontgetityo wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

During the 70s, L.S.D. (Long Slow Distance) was about 7:00. It would have been almost physically impossible for me to run 8 or 9 minutes per mile. At the time, my definition of jogging was 8 or slower.

I'm confused. You were talking about your HS teammates as if it happened recently just a few weeks ago. Now you were running in the 70s? Do you lend this account to your grandson? I'm being serious.

Also, not sure how it would be physically impossible to go 8-9 minutes per mile, given even Kipchoge does runs at that pace. There may have been less widespread good info, that is true. But there were plenty of people back in the day that still took easy days very easy.

I found a training log for Kipchoge. I dont see much running at 8:00+ pace:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

idontgetityo wrote:

I'm confused. You were talking about your HS teammates as if it happened recently just a few weeks ago. Now you were running in the 70s? Do you lend this account to your grandson? I'm being serious.

Also, not sure how it would be physically impossible to go 8-9 minutes per mile, given even Kipchoge does runs at that pace. There may have been less widespread good info, that is true. But there were plenty of people back in the day that still took easy days very easy.

I found a training log for Kipchoge. I dont see much running at 8:00+ pace:

https://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-full-training-log-leading-marathon-world-record-attempt/

Fair, but that is right before he is peaking for a marathon and not typical throughout the year. I’m including the top three results for when I searched “Kipchoge recovery pace.”

Here he talks about 4:30-5 min/k (5 min/k being 8 min/mi). So sometimes a little faster, but definitely doing 8 min pace

And other times he does segments of recoveries at crazy 6 min/k.

Obviously not all his easy running all the time, but it’s clearly a significant chunk.

konrad1198 wrote:

Currently I run without a set structure or plan, and it usually amounts to me running anywhere from 11-14 miles a day. I know this is not an optimal way to train, and to be honest, I doubt I am getting faster/improving as a runner. I would not consider all my running easy running, as most times I end the run pretty exhausted (again, I know this is not good). Otherwise, I do not consider the run "productive" (I come from a soccer background, where running meant hard effort).

Those of you who felt similarly, that easy running was stupid/unproductive, how do you feel now? Thank God I have not experienced significant injuries yet, but I fear that pretty soon this way of running will catch up to me in the long-term.

How talented are you? Just another good runner ? hobby jogger? I don't think if you were elite material you wouldn't be asking this question here, but maybe you are, In that case if you are feeling positive about what you are doing, don't worry about when you are old and do what is indicated to be best now. If you need to run to deal with life, or it's fun/rewarding, but you are average, that's o.k. too, listen to your body, don't get greedy.

JakobKipchoge wrote:

Excellent topic man. HELL YES i regret not taking easy days. I have come to understand that training is a push pull type thing. You have to recover just as seriously as you hammer your workouts. Everyone has a theoretical absolute best that can only be achieved by properly balancing effort and recovery.

Typical LRC: "You should take it easy on your easy days so you can hammer your workouts" and

"You shouldn´t leave your races in workouts":

So, according to the LRC training experts, you should run your easy days easy so you can run easy on your workouts. That sounds...easy.

idontgetityo wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I found a training log for Kipchoge. I dont see much running at 8:00+ pace:

https://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-full-training-log-leading-marathon-world-record-attempt/

Fair, but that is right before he is peaking for a marathon and not typical throughout the year. I’m including the top three results for when I searched “Kipchoge recovery pace.”

Here he talks about 4:30-5 min/k (5 min/k being 8 min/mi). So sometimes a little faster, but definitely doing 8 min pace

https://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-recovery/https://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-training-typical-friday/

And other times he does segments of recoveries at crazy 6 min/k.

https://sportcoaching.co.nz/kipchoge-training-program-guide/

Obviously not all his easy running all the time, but it’s clearly a significant chunk.

Nowhere does these articles say that he does a significant chunk of his training at these pedestrian paces. I suggest you read the article again.

Steffen wrote:

idontgetityo wrote:

Fair, but that is right before he is peaking for a marathon and not typical throughout the year. I’m including the top three results for when I searched “Kipchoge recovery pace.”

Here he talks about 4:30-5 min/k (5 min/k being 8 min/mi). So sometimes a little faster, but definitely doing 8 min pace

https://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-recovery/https://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-training-typical-friday/

And other times he does segments of recoveries at crazy 6 min/k.

https://sportcoaching.co.nz/kipchoge-training-program-guide/

Obviously not all his easy running all the time, but it’s clearly a significant chunk.

Nowhere does these articles say that he does a significant chunk of his training at these pedestrian paces. I suggest you read the article again.

OK, I’ll quote:

“ As we would discover through our stay in Kaptagat, these recovery sessions vary between 10km to 21km, and can be anything from a consistently slow pace of around 4:45min/km, to roughly what we had just experienced, with the pace greatly varying and building throughout the session.”

The others talk about 5 min/k and 6 min/k being a part if his typical recovery run, which he does every single day. Obviously at times he can crank it up in the middle of the session to 3:45 or 4 min/k, other times he sticks to slow and steady two hour runs covering 21k.

You can train differently. I don’t care. But some elites train this way. No big deal.

Steffen wrote:

Typical LRC: "You should take it easy on your easy days so you can hammer your workouts" and

"You shouldn´t leave your races in workouts":

So, according to the LRC training experts, you should run your easy days easy so you can run easy on your workouts. That sounds...easy.

Don't forget not to over-race either.

I am way way slower than most of you (15:45 5k), much newer to running (< 2 years) and started way later in life (34) but in my short tenure have made a lot of mistakes. I feel like I have found a good groove recently doing the following:

* Running recovery days (days after workouts) really easy. 135-138 BPM average on a 205 max. Usually like 8-8:20 pace.

* Running all other non-workout days at a goal of 145 BPM which can range from 7-7:30 pace.

* One hard workout on Sunday. Usually 8-12 miles of total quality volume and 14-16 miles with warmups and cooldowns at paces varying from LT (5:25-5:33) to Aerobic Tempo (5:40-5:50) to Easy Tempo (6:00-6:09)

* An easier workout on Wednesday which is typically some sort of fartlek with some VO2 max paced stuff and fast floats or CV paced intervals. Usually 3-5 miles in total volume.

* Hill sprints/strides on Friday.

I have seen huge fitness gains over when I was first starting and it felt like I was closing every run in the 6s, averaging everything in the low 7s etc.

So to answer the question... yes I regret running too fast on easy days but I didn't spend much time doing it and have course corrected. This is also a great thread.