If he is a hard worker, why is he only doing 50 now?
Sounds like someone has confused "hard worker" with "does the basic standard".
If he is a hard worker, why is he only doing 50 now?
Sounds like someone has confused "hard worker" with "does the basic standard".
From my own experience, no. Went to a D3 with a hs PR in the 4:40s for 1600m off of 30-35 mpw. I did not get to run for the team.
hypothetical wrote:
Suppose you have a male college freshman whose best 1600 time is in the low 5s (5:00 - 5:10). This was achieved off of 50+ MPW of training, and he's better in the 1600 than in the 800, 3200, or any other event. He has a great work ethic, never complains, always shows up to practices and tries his best at meets (in HS), but just doesn't have any talent.
Given those conditions, would most D2 and D3 schools allow him to join the team and represent that school in at least 2-3 meets a year? Assume that his academics are not a concern.
It has to do with roster space and they are not going to waste it on you. Has nothing to do with you as a person. It comes down to space and also keeping a standard. Some schools won't even let you walk on with a 4:35 best let alone slower then there long run pace. Think of it this way you are joining a bowling league that your best buddy runs league average is 225 you bowl a 125 don't take it personal if your best buddy tells you no because you will bring down the group statistic same deal.
HS seniorrr wrote:
Almost any d3 would take you. Most NAIA schools are just happy you're going to their schools and may even give you a bit of money, if they're not super competitive. Lots of mediocre to bad D2s would probably give you a shot, some of the smaller schools that only survive because athletes go there (like the NAIA schools) are more likely to. Adams State and Colorado Mines? Probably not. But there plenty more that would give you a roster spot.
This is not true about NAIA. I was NAIA and we had 10 under 15 for 5,000m, 4 under 30 for 10,000m, 12 under 4 for the 1500m, 3 sub 9 steeplchasers, and 15 sub 2 800m runners. I was our number 1 miler and number 2 10,000m runner with a 3:45 1500m and 29:05 10,000m best. Our team woulkd have not given you the time of day if you could not run under 4:20 for a mile.
hypothetical wrote:
Suppose you have a male college freshman whose best 1600 time is in the low 5s (5:00 - 5:10). This was achieved off of 50+ MPW of training, and he's better in the 1600 than in the 800, 3200, or any other event. He has a great work ethic, never complains, always shows up to practices and tries his best at meets (in HS), but just doesn't have any talent.
Given those conditions, would most D2 and D3 schools allow him to join the team and represent that school in at least 2-3 meets a year? Assume that his academics are not a concern.
That person would be buried in intervals and races and couldn't keep up in most over distance runs. Running on his own and joining the team would be the same thing. He would be running solo either way.
Sounds like there is some hiding behind the claim of lack of talent. I'm not saying that anyone can run a world-class performance, but with some training, most males can run under 5:00. Either there needs to be an improvement in overall athleticism, a focus on speed development to make a more rounded middle-distance runner, or a concerted effort to improve threshold/tempo training to plan on moving up in distance. The idea that one is *just* a 1600m runner is complete crap.
I went about 1:58, 4:27, 9:41, and 15:57. I was offered small scholarships (like 10-15% of yearly costs) at a few D1 State/University schools. Was offered about 30-40% at a couple of private D2 colleges/universities. Took an offer at a pretty good JuCo where I got about 30% paid. so the previous poster who listed the sort of average 'cut off' times to get looked at is probably pretty close. Some colleges/universities on their websites will have a link showing the standards for walk-ons. I coached a kid who ran 2:01/4:43 off about 20miles a week in just 14 weeks. He actually earned a full academic ride to a university in the state, so he didn't even need athletic money. Everything was paid for, plus he got like a 1000$ a month stiped from this scholarship. He wanted to try and walk on to the men's program. I told him there was no way they'd take him. But, that university had a pretty decent club/intramural team with 12-15 guys who could run between 15:10-15:50 for 5K and like 4:20-30 for mile. I suggested he join that and train for a year, get his times down close to the walk-on standards and ask them to let him try out since he didn't want or need scholarship. I even told him to tell them he was only hoping to run in home meets or local meets (within a 2hour drive). They still said "No thanks."
So, no a male 5:00miler has no prayer of even making it on a D1 team, mainly because of travel/budget/roster limitations....find a college/university. However, in our devolving culture of narcissism and victimization mentality...if you can claim some fake disability/condition and threaten them with discrimination....they'll fold like wet paper and take you.
My bad. I meant to say it was a 1000$ a semester stipend. He even offered to pay for the gear/uniform he wanted to be on the team so bad (pad a resume). They still said No.
Really? If a kid can claim some fake disability/condition and threaten them with discrimination, he can be on the Baylor basketball team?
I don't think you understand sports.
hypothetical wrote:
Suppose you have a male college freshman whose best 1600 time is in the low 5s (5:00 - 5:10). This was achieved off of 50+ MPW of training, and he's better in the 1600 than in the 800, 3200, or any other event. He has a great work ethic, never complains, always shows up to practices and tries his best at meets (in HS), but just doesn't have any talent.
Given those conditions, would most D2 and D3 schools allow him to join the team and represent that school in at least 2-3 meets a year? Assume that his academics are not a concern.
His best bet would be to train on his own, get his time down to the 4:40s, and try to join the team in his senior year.
Sidetracking a bit, but a former co-worker of mine went to college for 5 years (he didn't take a full course load during some of those years) but graduated without a degree. He never ran competitively before age 25 but discovered that he had some untapped running talent in his late 20s. In his early 30s, he ran a sub 2 800 and a sub 10 3200 in a random all comers meet.
If he were to go back to college (either at the same school or at a different school) to finish his degree, would he even be eligible to run on the team? Eligibility aside, would most D3 schools even take him, assuming he quit his job or took a leave of absence to fit in running and schoolwork?
Go to Haverford Tom turns 5 minute guys into crazy fast runners
Even Division 1, Hard Workers help with the culture/atmosphere of the team, The top kids see the worst kids working their backsides off and it motivates them to do the same, Hard Work pays off and 5 years (Counting the Redshirt) is time to see great improvement.
hypothetical wrote:
Suppose you have a male college freshman whose best 1600 time is in the low 5s (5:00 - 5:10).
...
would most D2 and D3 schools allow him to join the team
D2? No way. A few low-tier ones would, but they'd be a very small minority.
He'd have better luck with D3 schools, but even then, I wouldn't say that most D3 schools with men's track teams would take him. Maybe 40% or so would, but that fraction would definitely be less than half.
rough ballpark wrote:
1%-5% of D1 colleges would let you walk on
30%-40% of D2 colleges would let you walk on
70%-80% of D3 colleges would let you walk on
For NAIA, it's 80%-90%, and for JuCo, it's 90%-100% . All of this assumes that you only count schools that have a men's track team.
A number of conferences now have club championships which are pretty competitive e.g. the Ivy League Club XC champs have guys run close to/under 25. So if you can't make the roster, there are till chances to train and compete it seems.
I was a 4:19/9:35 guy on about 50mpw. That got me on to a decent D2 team, but I wasn't one of the top distance guys on the team until I was a junior. My younger brother was a 4:29/9:55 guy and he barely made the team and never made the top 7 on the XC team. 5:00 mile will not get you on any but possibly the worst D2 teams.
P.S. Because of Title IX most men's XC and track teams have roster limits that don't allow them to carry marginal runners.
My D3 school simply had the number of spots for cross country and track and field. They held try-outs, and determined the roster based on those, giving very few athletes (maybe top 7 in xc and a handful in track) an actual spot before the season. Anyone could try out. The slowest miler might have been like a 4:50 guy. If you wanted to make the team you had to beat him, or hope many of the athletes ahead of you were slower than 5:00 or whatever you're asking about.
Nice before Title IX. But when you have only 12 spots for distance runners and the slowest guy on the team is running 4:30, this guy isn't getting a spot.
I guess you're talking about a guy, not a woman. Any 17-18 year old guy who runs 50mpw and runs a 5:00 mile is not going to improve a lot, OK one exception -- let's say he's only been running 2 -3 months, then there's hope (but not much.)
another opinion wrote:
HS seniorrr wrote:
Almost any d3 would take you. Most NAIA schools are just happy you're going to their schools and may even give you a bit of money, if they're not super competitive. Lots of mediocre to bad D2s would probably give you a shot, some of the smaller schools that only survive because athletes go there (like the NAIA schools) are more likely to. Adams State and Colorado Mines? Probably not. But there plenty more that would give you a roster spot.
A 5 min miler? Are you serious? Maybe some JC in Kansas
I'm serious. When I was a lowly 5 minute miler (after sophomore track season) a while ago I would get random NAIA schools emailing promising scholarship money along with a few D2s offering money if you approached them. You'd be surprised at how bad some of these schools are, especially at the back end of their roster