Did Joaquim Cruz reach his potential?

After '84 he also was fighting Achilles issues for the remainder of his career which limited his training. I happened to have the same orthopedist as Cruz. I saw my orthopedist for a shoulder problem in the mid 90s and he knew I was a semi-serious runner. He told me about the pressure he felt doing Achilles surgery on an Olympic gold medal winner.

Also worth mentioning is where he had been living and training in the handful of years prior to the '84 Olympics: Eugene, Oregon, ground zero for US dopers in T&F. He couldn't have been unaware of that even if he wanted to.

I wish I had never reached my potential and still achieved the following

- Olympic Gold and Silver medal (prob should have won in 88 if he didn’t run so aggressively against his own training partner)

- World Junior Record (when athletes were actually u20)

- 6 sub 1:43’s in 84/85 (only Rudisha and Kipketer have run more)

- Still 5th fastest ever

- 4th at 83 World Champs

- NCAA 8/15 double

He was amazing, but Kipketer and Rudisha were clearly better IMO

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

I wasn't aware of his leg discrepancy, and shoe requirements. Any more on that?

This is one of the articles I found on him - it's a good read.

JRinaldi wrote:

I wish I had never reached my potential and still achieved the following

- Olympic Gold and Silver medal (prob should have won in 88 if he didn’t run so aggressively against his own training partner)

- World Junior Record (when athletes were actually u20)

- 6 sub 1:43’s in 84/85 (only Rudisha and Kipketer have run more)

- Still 5th fastest ever

- 4th at 83 World Champs

- NCAA 8/15 double

He was amazing, but Kipketer and Rudisha were clearly better IMO

What JRinaldi said.

If you look at the 1988 final, to me it looks like Cruz wastes energy leading up to and just past the 200 mark. Barbosa and Kiprotich are fighting each other up front, going through in a ridiculous sub-24 split.

Cruz looks like he actually accelerates and almost passes them right after 200, then thinks better of it (almost like someone yelled out "23! Too fast") and settles in behind them. In hindsight, Barbosa and Kiprotich were idiots and Ereng and Aouita were geniuses with their pacing. Of course, with his messed-up thigh, maybe Aouita could not have gone out faster even if he wanted to.

They hit the 200 mark at about 2:06 in the video.

JRinaldi wrote:

He was amazing, but Kipketer and Rudisha were clearly better IMO

You could surely present a case that he was the most talented 800m runner in history?

Kipketer was 23 before he ran 1:41, and it took him another year and countless tries to finally break Coe's mark.

Nearly all the greats are cases of 'could have been even greater if..', but when you think about it, Cruz perhaps comes closest to being a GOAT near miss, even if you leave aside the fact that injuries (and a deformity) meant he peaked at 21. He was 5/100th of a second away from being the WR holder, and less than 1/2 a second and one place away from being a two time Olympic champion.

If you are dropping sub 1:42 800's we can safely say you are reaching your potential.

He out-kicked Coe! Who does that?

Coevett wrote:

JRinaldi wrote:

He was amazing, but Kipketer and Rudisha were clearly better IMO

You could surely present a case that he was the most talented 800m runner in history?

Kipketer was 23 before he ran 1:41, and it took him another year and countless tries to finally break Coe's mark.

Nearly all the greats are cases of 'could have been even greater if..', but when you think about it, Cruz perhaps comes closest to being a GOAT near miss, even if you leave aside the fact that injuries (and a deformity) meant he peaked at 21. He was 5/100th of a second away from being the WR holder, and less than 1/2 a second and one place away from being a two time Olympic champion.

again if he had El G sauce he would have run 1:40 and 3:25....he was fast and had that LONG powerful stride...a stronger version of el G. i imagine he had to be able to hit 45 in the 400 as everyone else that has run 1:41 had that speed

Can anyone confirm Kipketer’s real DOB? I’m sure it was 1970 when he first came on to the scene....don’t believe he was running 1:48.5 as a 15 year old!

Cruz is my favourite 800m runner, but I think some athletes peak a little earlier than others.

Rudisha, Kipketer, Coe, Cruz head to head in peak shape would have been very interesting. If Coe played it smart and held the rail in 4th until the last 100m, he may get lucky and be able to sneak up the inside for the win. If he goes wide, Kipketer FTW as Rudisha and Cruz fight to hard with 80m to run.

JRinaldi wrote:

I wish I had never reached my potential and still achieved the following

- Olympic Gold and Silver medal (prob should have won in 88 if he didn’t run so aggressively against his own training partner)

- World Junior Record (when athletes were actually u20)

- 6 sub 1:43’s in 84/85 (only Rudisha and Kipketer have run more)

- Still 5th fastest ever

- 4th at 83 World Champs

- NCAA 8/15 double

He was amazing, but Kipketer and Rudisha were clearly better IMO

Correct that to 3rd at 83 World Champs 800m

JRinaldi wrote:

Can anyone confirm Kipketer’s real DOB? I’m sure it was 1970 when he first came on to the scene....don’t believe he was running 1:48.5 as a 15 year old!

Cruz is my favourite 800m runner, but I think some athletes peak a little earlier than others.

Rudisha, Kipketer, Coe, Cruz head to head in peak shape would have been very interesting. If Coe played it smart and held the rail in 4th until the last 100m, he may get lucky and be able to sneak up the inside for the win. If he goes wide, Kipketer FTW as Rudisha and Cruz fight to hard with 80m to run.

How so

Who could have lived with Rudisha in London 2012 ?

You’re right, no way Kipketer could hang with 49/1:14 pace : )

JRinaldi wrote:

https://youtu.be/AOS3RQU92Z4

You’re right, no way Kipketer could hang with 49/1:14 pace : )

Indeed. Kipketer was as talented as Rudisha as far as I could tell.

dsrunner wrote:

Peaked as an 800 runner perhaps ( certainly as good or better than Coe ) but had way more left at 1000m and 1500m. Don't think he ever ran a 1500m w/ pacesetters.

Would say he was <3:30 1500m capable.

Don't remember what the limb length difference but believe it was ~ 1.5 inches. Those measurements are more nebulous, more open to interpretation than you might expect.

According to article in AW (review of 84 Olympics), his right leg was 2cm shorter, which is about half of 1.5 inches.

Jud Buechler wrote:

Also worth mentioning is where he had been living and training in the handful of years prior to the '84 Olympics: Eugene, Oregon, ground zero for US dopers in T&F. He couldn't have been unaware of that even if he wanted to.

I didn't realize Eugene was in East Germany in 1984.

wazzu1452 wrote:

If you are dropping sub 1:42 800's we can safely say you are reaching your potential.

He out-kicked Coe! Who does that?

Ovett.