Best marathon long run workout

With only 6 weeks to go, I wouldn't bother with anything fancy. You should be building up to a big session like that with similar long run sessions in previous weeks. A single big session like that has high risk and little benefit (better to leave your best running for the race than to use it in a big session).

For what it's worth, I used to do those sort of big MP sessions but I've set PBs (2:29) since dropping these sort of runs. I just do progressive long runs, finishing at around MP.

I reckon a fast finish long run is a good session for you. If you want to do these sort of big sessions, try it next training cycle and include them every 2-3 weeks.

Thanks. I did do some sessions (like the one i did last week). So its not like a new implementation.

The fast finish long run, what would you suggest to be averaging. I guess it shouldnt be hobbyjogging the first 20k?

For a 20 mile run, I'd start out slow and over about 5km build to about 4/km. Hold this sort of pace until about 20km, then start dropping the pace over the next 12km, finishing the last 2-3km or so at about 3:30/km.

This is sort of typical but it would completely depend on how I felt. I never really put pressure on myself to hit certain paces, especially if I wasn't feeling it on the day.

I find MP really quite hard in training, so I don't tend to do long sessions at MP. I used to do it but I think it was taking too much out.

Cool. I suppose those paces are yours for 2.29.. So I would do a bit slower and drop to 3:40ish at the end..

Yeah those paces sound about right, but I never targeted any particular paces, just finished strong.

I imagine there are 1000s of other people with different ideas that worked for them. This is just what I like to do.

My final session is 20M at about 95% of MGP. Go ahead and use this to practice your kit and fueling plan.

There's been several good threads on this over the years. But me personally, early in the training phase I like to do my long runs over rolling hills, gradually progressing to marathon pace and throwing in good surges on the hills. When first doing the long run I just keep the whole thing easy except for uphill surges. As the training nears the marathon I start off doing 2km to 5km intervals at a bit faster than marathon pace with a kilometer steady(about 30-40 seconds slower than marathon pace). I'll do that for 2-4 reps. Than the final hard workout I'll do will be 20-30 km at marathon effort.

Another two good ones:

First half of the long run easy and the second half at a good effort i.e. look up Frank Shorter long runs.

Last 30 minutes doing a fartlek. Getting your legs used to finishing fast and to move when you're tired

Look up the “5 Key Marathon Workouts” thread. It’s just about perfect. OP is “MPR” or something like that. It will come up if you Google it.

The only one that is missing from the OP that the OP later adds is a 21 mile run at 90-95% marathon pace. That’s a solid workout. I think that and the 22-24 mile 85% run that has you on your feet as long or longer than your marathon are the most valuable, followed by the 20 mile run with the last 10 at MP.

From my own experience, there is no point doing 22 miles is too far at 85% marathon pace. After years of doing those sorts of runs, including up to 40km at that pace, I don't do any marathon type runs that extend 20 miles, and I might do that once.

You are better focussed on doing workouts like 6 x 3 km, 4 x 5km - at near goal marathon pace, with fast floats at maybe 80% of MP. Aim to do one of these workouts every two weeks. in the off week, try to do a 18 mile run at 85% MP.

those 85% pace long runs are tough, and shouldn't be for 2.5 hours. They also sap you unnecessarily.

From my own experience, focusing on quality sessions instead of milage, I've brought my marathon time down from the high 220s to the mid teens. Running 85 to 90 miles per week.

instead of 100 to 120. Two sessions per week. Every easy day (4 out of 7) is 8 minute miling. One day is low 7s for a 90 minute run. One day intervals, and one long session day or a MP workout day.

I disagree with the above, and so would Canova. A key part of marathon training is about glycogen/time at work. I find it incredibly beneficial to train that aspect. You only do a 22-24 mile run maybe twice in your buildup over a 3-4 month period, but it is key.

15-18 miles at 10-15 seconds slower than marathon pace

15-18 miles fartlek alternating 15 seconds faster than marathon pace and 20 seconds slower than marathon pace (can be 3 minute/2 minute segments or 2 mile/1 mile segments)

Can do warmup/cooldown to make these long runs even longer than the workout portion.

birdbeard wrote:

I disagree with the above, and so would Canova. A key part of marathon training is about glycogen/time at work. I find it incredibly beneficial to train that aspect. You only do a 22-24 mile run maybe twice in your buildup over a 3-4 month period, but it is key.

Fueling start to play role depend on marathon target speed (or even more precise: how far your marathon pace vs threshold pace vs easy pace), as soon as you approach to theoretical 02:00:00, more role of fueling, because your easy pace, marathon pace, threshold pace, 10k pace are all close together and fast.

Nonsense. Time is what matters not miles. Pace it off 80% easy or 90% moderate or 95% hard build up to marathon time.

birdbeard wrote:

I disagree with the above, and so would Canova. A key part of marathon training is about glycogen/time at work. I find it incredibly beneficial to train that aspect. You only do a 22-24 mile run maybe twice in your buildup over a 3-4 month period, but it is key.

I think the best marathon long runs are when you have 8-15 @ pace mixed in. Can be straight or broken up.

10 easy, 10 @ GMP

tempos anywhere from 8-15 miles

2-3 easy, 4 @ GMP, 6-8 easy, 4 @ GMP, 2-3 easy

2-3 up, 6-10 x 1 @ GMP, 1 easy, c/d

2-3 up, 4-5 x 2 miles @ M, 2 easy, c/d

birdbeard wrote:

Look up the “5 Key Marathon Workouts” thread. It’s just about perfect. OP is “MPR” or something like that. It will come up if you Google it.

The only one that is missing from the OP that the OP later adds is a 21 mile run at 90-95% marathon pace. That’s a solid workout. I think that and the 22-24 mile 85% run that has you on your feet as long or longer than your marathon are the most valuable, followed by the 20 mile run with the last 10 at MP.

+1. Good old thread

birdbeard wrote:

I disagree with the above, and so would Canova. A key part of marathon training is about glycogen/time at work. I find it incredibly beneficial to train that aspect. You only do a 22-24 mile run maybe twice in your buildup over a 3-4 month period, but it is key.

Key is a "fat/glycogen burning ratio". More fat, less glycogen. I would say like this by another words.

Link:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2487659

Time is key wrote:

Nonsense. Time is what matters not miles. Pace it off 80% easy or 90% moderate or 95% hard build up to marathon time.

birdbeard wrote:

I disagree with the above, and so would Canova. A key part of marathon training is about glycogen/time at work. I find it incredibly beneficial to train that aspect. You only do a 22-24 mile run maybe twice in your buildup over a 3-4 month period, but it is key.

Read my post -- "time at work". So, I was referring specifically to time. I do find that 22-24 miles at an easier pace will keep you on your feet for about the same as marathon time depending on how fast you run -- just a guideline.

Every three weeks: last 5k all out.