Not a debate, but seems like US authorities underestimating % people who won't get vaccinated. What you think?

Hans Geisler wrote:

DanM wrote:

Any chance those proteins could be recognized as abnormal and cause a vaccine acquired version of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease several years later ?

I ask because I am NOT a molecular biologist.

It’s a good thing you ask because you’re spreading misinformation about the vaccines (and how they’re supposedly extremely dangerous) all over LetsRun.

Not a molecular biologist but randomly postulating that vaccines give you CJD.

It's like a gun control activist who asks "what if the gun jumps out of the safe and shoots me -- are you sure it won't do that."

Conservative Christian wrote:

I see. We've come full circle from "excess deaths will prove that covid only kills people who were going to die anyway" to "the excess deaths number does not confirm my priors so it must be made up".

Why would Trump's CDC do such a thing?

🤣🤣🤣

The only two arguments they have left are:

"death is not actually bad"

or

"all the numbers are faked. Every single one. 100k's of doctors all conspired to fake every death.

Gio Urshela is playing today for the Yankees. Good to see that he's all right.

DanM wrote:

Gio Urshela is playing today for the Yankees. Good to see that he's all right.

Of course he is

The anti- vaxxers provide a just and great public service acting as a control group for all of this.

Why would we not want data about how the non-vaccinated fare against the vaccinated? I am already vaccinated, not because I think I need it but because I didn't think it would hurt me and I am trying to smooth things over in my peer circles. I would certainly like to know if Vaxxers waisted their time.

Harambe wrote:

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

We will not know until we have long term studies. We have no, zero, long term studies of mRNA vaccines in healthy people. This is a fact. We may know now that the vaccines do not generally outright kill people, only sometimes, but it will be many years before we know if they have and do not have serious long term health effects. Anyone demanding otherwise is a liar.

In this review you see dozens of clinical trials of mRNA therapies. Many already completed years ago.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243#Sec14

So yes, we have long term data on mRNA vaccines.

No long term data on healthy adults or healthy children. You are still lying. There is no long term data on mRNA vaccines. I am not saying they are bad, but right now they have significant uncertainties that should be of concern with respect to the younger population until we have more data. You choose to just lie and say we do for some reason. You are a liar as usual.

The CDC has always been against Trump. Are you kidding here?

Did you read the studies? Many on healthy adults! Maybe you’re the one lying 🤔 (Hint: go to this table search the trial number and look at the enrolled people data: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243/tables/2) Either way: What’s long term? COVID-19 mRNA vaccine trials started a whole year ago! Long-term effects are a boogeyman! The vast vast majority of vaccine related adverse events happen within a month, but you can always say “long term effects.” It’s just like GMO crop “skeptics.” Moving goalposts endlessly. We don’t know all the “long term effects” of COVID I infection either but so far the ones we know seem much worse and much more likely that adverse effects from the vaccine!

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Harambe wrote:

In this review you see dozens of clinical trials of mRNA therapies. Many already completed years ago.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243#Sec14

So yes, we have long term data on mRNA vaccines.

No long term data on healthy adults or healthy children. You are still lying. There is no long term data on mRNA vaccines. I am not saying they are bad, but right now they have significant uncertainties that should be of concern with respect to the younger population until we have more data. You choose to just lie and say we do for some reason. You are a liar as usual.

Harambe wrote:

Conservative Christian wrote:

I see. We've come full circle from "excess deaths will prove that covid only kills people who were going to die anyway" to "the excess deaths number does not confirm my priors so it must be made up".

Why would Trump's CDC do such a thing?

🤣🤣🤣

The only two arguments they have left are:

"death is not actually bad"

or

"all the numbers are faked. Every single one. 100k's of doctors all conspired to fake every death.

Keep lying buddy.

1.) Excess deaths massively overestimated by the CDC

2.) Vaccines require time for the full long term safety to be understood; there is no way to rush this

3.) Death is bad, but if the death was already occurring then what are we preventing exactly?

4.) A lot of people think that the official numbers are skewed for a number of reason that do not require some grand aligned conspiracy among doctors, it just requires them to follows guidelines and avoid liability issues like they always do already for everything.....this alone skews the numbers because stating "covid" in 2020 was the safe answer when there was a positive test.

5.) You seem to be hell bent on painting a false narrative and knocking down any scrutiny of that narrative; to most you just seem like a liar with an agenda...no, you are a liar with an agenda.

All you have left is to state the same falsehoods over and over again, and claim over and over again that people are stating things they are not stating. Odd and disingenuous at best.

5-10 years I would think if you are considering the potential for significant autoimmune development? Also, you are still the liar. Why do you post stuff claiming something it is not. There are 8 trials (not dozens) in the table you post, 2 are recruiting and 3 are current and in progress/active/ongoing, and the only completed trials (3 of them) are on HIV infected people. Where are the long term completed trials on healthy people? There aren't any.

Long term studies specifically need to be present to fully understand the potential for mRNA vaccine to promote autoimmune disease. Why do you think things that take sometimes decades to develop would be understood in 1 or 2 months? This is a real concern, of which I posted articles above to show that there is real scientific concern and uncertainty, but still this seems to not be an issue to you. Ok, you don't care if the world's children all develop weird autoimmune diseases in 10 years, your OCD matters more. I get it, we must vaccinate all of the children with new vaccine tech for a virus that does not affect them. Sure buddy, sure.

Harambe wrote:

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Experts say we won't know the long term effects after years of study. Harambe/Bro2600 say, we just know without doing the long term studies so trust us. I get it, you are the experts and the ones deciding which experts are the experts. Good job morons.

You can spam this for any new therapy. We have a year of data already.

Keep moving the goalposts. I can't imagine how angry you are that the vaccines worked lol

Why not just pump out a normal vaccine for this virus that is 60% effective and devoid of mRNA tech or serious adjuvants? This is what the kids need, not an experiment. You guys are really working full time for the mRNA companies aren't you?

There're no adjuvants in the mRNA vaccine. God you're grasping at straws. And you think the mRNA is the dangerous part? Guess what has that same mRNA (plus much more), gives you a billions times higher dose, replicates, and persists in your body for weeks... the virus!! I think Harambe is right - it pains you that "the establishment" solved the problem. You wanted to see your fringe anti-establishment views vindicated. Parts of me sympathsize with how annoying it all must be!

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Harambe wrote:

You can spam this for any new therapy. We have a year of data already.

Keep moving the goalposts. I can't imagine how angry you are that the vaccines worked lol

Why not just pump out a normal vaccine for this virus that is 60% effective and devoid of mRNA tech or serious adjuvants? This is what the kids need, not an experiment. You guys are really working full time for the mRNA companies aren't you?

2600 bro wrote:

There're no adjuvants in the mRNA vaccine. God you're grasping at straws.

And you think the mRNA is the dangerous part? Guess what has that same mRNA (plus much more), gives you a billions times higher dose, replicates, and persists in your body for weeks... the virus!!

I think Harambe is right - it pains you that "the establishment" solved the problem. You wanted to see your fringe anti-establishment views vindicated. Parts of me sympathsize with how annoying it all must be!

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Why not just pump out a normal vaccine for this virus that is 60% effective and devoid of mRNA tech or serious adjuvants? This is what the kids need, not an experiment. You guys are really working full time for the mRNA companies aren't you?

Man you are dumb. The mRNA tech is new, those vaccines have the mRNA tech. the other available vaccines have adjuvants intended to boost immune response in elderly people; this is the reason younger people have worse side effects to them than the older people.

2600 bro wrote:

There're no adjuvants in the mRNA vaccine. God you're grasping at straws.

And you think the mRNA is the dangerous part? Guess what has that same mRNA (plus much more), gives you a billions times higher dose, replicates, and persists in your body for weeks... the virus!!

I think Harambe is right - it pains you that "the establishment" solved the problem. You wanted to see your fringe anti-establishment views vindicated. Parts of me sympathsize with how annoying it all must be!

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Why not just pump out a normal vaccine for this virus that is 60% effective and devoid of mRNA tech or serious adjuvants? This is what the kids need, not an experiment. You guys are really working full time for the mRNA companies aren't you?

What problem? Who is saying covid is not over. I am saying we don not need to vaccinate the younger population with mRNA vaccines that have not been tested over the long run, particularly when there is little benefit to vaccinating the children. What is wrong with you? You keep circling back to some personal victory for yourself in a battle that nobody is waging.

Yes, the vaccines have been great for saving the elderly population!. Now there is nothing to worry about because we can't kill grandma and we are back to the normal situation where the healthy people can pick up the virus and just not get sick and the vaccinated are protected. Don't go claiming now that would mean we would fail, because you have already declared victory....you can't walk that back.

I can't keep up with how much BS you post - it's hilarious That review is from 2018 and is non-exhaustive - it's tough having to do the research while you just plug your ears and scream "ITS A LIE". Here's more Ph I/II trials for you to examine. Earliest one is from 2013!https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1332077763809996801?s=20 5-10 years seems rather arbitrary time point (do you have biological basis for that?) but we're at year 8 of mRNA vaccine trials so you must be close to satisfied?

The adenovirus vaccines also don't require a adjuvant. I am unsure what you are getting at. How is the mRNA "new tech" when we (life on earth) have been making it for ~2 billion years? If you are worried about long term autoimmune complications from the mRNA in the vaccine - why are you not worried about it from the virus... which has the same mRNA? I am getting the feeling I am not the "dumb" one here.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

There're no adjuvants in the mRNA vaccine. God you're grasping at straws.

And you think the mRNA is the dangerous part? Guess what has that same mRNA (plus much more), gives you a billions times higher dose, replicates, and persists in your body for weeks... the virus!!

I think Harambe is right - it pains you that "the establishment" solved the problem. You wanted to see your fringe anti-establishment views vindicated. Parts of me sympathsize with how annoying it all must be!

Man you are dumb. The mRNA tech is new, those vaccines have the mRNA tech. the other available vaccines have adjuvants intended to boost immune response in elderly people; this is the reason younger people have worse side effects to them than the older people.

2600 bro wrote:

The adenovirus vaccines also don't require a adjuvant. I am unsure what you are getting at. How is the mRNA "new tech" when we (life on earth) have been making it for ~2 billion years?

If you are worried about long term autoimmune complications from the mRNA in the vaccine - why are you not worried about it from the virus... which has the same mRNA?

I am getting the feeling I am not the "dumb" one here.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Man you are dumb. The mRNA tech is new, those vaccines have the mRNA tech. the other available vaccines have adjuvants intended to boost immune response in elderly people; this is the reason younger people have worse side effects to them than the older people.

Seriously? mRNA tech allows your healthy cells to produce pathogens. A virus does this in the cells it takes over and kills. Why do you deny that there is a real potential here. It is not mRNA, it is your healthy cells producing pathogens rather than the dying cells infected with virus if you get it, now it is potentially all of your cells exposed to the vaccine? There is potential for autoimmune response to the cell types that end up being the pathogen factory. Sever viral infections are also associated with many autoimmune diseases. How do you not understand this?