Mary Cain's running career is going nowhere

Flotrack rocks wrote:

Not close. Cain was one of the top runners in the country.

So were the runners I mentioned. Kimball was touted as being the next Pre.

You've been attacking her character but you didn't respond to my comments on that issue.

Turtleb wrote:

One thing about Salazar and his training is that he really does seem

to march to his own drummer.

Better or worse performance on taking him as a coach, in this group

at least, seems to focus on doping (of course everything seems to be

doping in this group), but take Rupp.

He has been basically a professional running since he was like 16

under Salazar, yet he takes on a new coach and apparently, almost

immediately, is doing workouts he's never done before.

So just taking the mechanics of training and not the mental stuff, it is

possible Cain might have done better under a different coach.

This is a very important point...Salazar had been coaching for years. His style was essentially the same every year....Cain's family should have known exactly what she was getting into.

Again, I am not throwing blame on Cain here...she went for the instant glory - turned pro and went with Salazar. Maybe a different coach would have made a difference, maybe not. Unfortunately, like most of life's choices, you never know if you are making the right decision until much later on. Obviously Salazar was the wrong choice for her (this falls on Cain, not Salazar)...and turning pro was likely the wrong decision. Salazar obviously didn't realize his coaching tactics were not working on Cain (and that falls completely on Salazar).

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Flotrack rocks wrote:

None at her level. And she would have blamed the coach and created drama.

None at her level? What about Jeff Nelson, Rich Kimball and Sarah Baxter?

If I gave her the same workouts as everyone else on the team and didn't berate her over her weight, she there wouldn't have been blaming anyone or creating any drama. Suffering 5 stress fractures from running at an unhealthy weight should not have happened and it's understandable she would be upset about it. Her reaction does not mean she is an uncoachable malcontent. Why do you have such a low opinion of someone you've never met?

I don't agree with your comments, but I also don't totally disagree. You are making assumptions though on what caused her stress fractures. Stress fractures are common in young runners who are at a high mileage...especially if there has been a large increase in training/mileage.

Being overweight can be an issue, being underweight can be an issue, too many miles can be an issue, coming back too early can be an issue. etc etc

To simply say that the fractures were caused specifically by her weight/diet at the time makes a large assumption to justify a point.

He wasn't in the top 50 Americans while Cain was top 5.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Screaming your point doesn't make you more correct.

Being a high school xc coach doesn't guarantee that you're a good one.

I may be a nerd but at least I can speak with the verbal acuity of someone with an education.

You're ...well just a coach.

Eh.

Nothing to see here...or at whatever school you are coaching.

Funny, you are preaching for people to not attack athletes...which is fair. Yet here you are, again, attacking someone for stating their opinion. You insult someone because they were a coach.

And you claim that screaming your point doesn't make you correct...yet this entire thread is filled with you screaming and attacking people.

Your posts are sexist, non-sensical, and simply not worth responding to anymore.

Her parents should have known that Salazar would focus on her weight? You don't know what her decision process was in choosing OTC. Just like athletes in baseball part of her decision was weighing the value of a college scholarship and the likelihood of a big contract still being available after college. There's no such thing as "instant glory". She was already famous and going pro wasn't necessarily going to make her run faster. Grant Fisher has been more successful than Drew Hunter. How much faster would Cole Hocker be if he was already a professional runner?

No problem. Don't respond then.

I'll make, substantiate, and defend my points in any manner I see fit.

I don't owe any of you cordiality as I am not a teammate or friend to any of you, and regarding most of you and the depravity and blatant disregard for human life, I'd rather prefer to keep the tone in dealing with you as adversarial.

So yeah..I'm not changing...you may as well not respond.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Flotrack rocks wrote:

Not close. Cain was one of the top runners in the country.

So were the runners I mentioned. Kimball was touted as being the next Pre.

.

Citation? I dont remember anyone saying that.

malmo wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

So were the runners I mentioned. Kimball was touted as being the next Pre.

.

Citation? I dont remember anyone saying that.

There was an article on Kimball in T&F News in during Fall of 1974 that said just that. Probably not available online but a lot of T&F historians such as yourself have a big stack of issues from the 70s. His double at the 1974 Cal state meet was legendary.

That's my point....she and her family weighed the value of 4 years of college vs going for immediate cash and fame (ie Olympics). At 17, was she ready mentally/physically to go from HS training directly into pro?? Or would the college years have put her in a much better position? I think the answer is now obvious.

And regarding Salazar...yes, when you hire an experienced coach you generally will know their style, methods, philosophy....and you also have the ability to call several of the girls he has already coached to find out their experiences. Given that this was likely the biggest decision of her life to that point, doing some due diligence would be in order.

cant run your fastest when you are overweight... i dont care who your coach is... this is a universal truth.

that's one of the rubs of turning professional....you are being paid to be in peak condition and to perform. I do believe that Salazar absolutely treated Cain inappropriately....but any coach would have been trying to ensure the optimal fitness of the athlete. They get paid to get results.

I can't think of any situation where a professional coach would not be pushing his athletes to be in the best shape possible for their sport. I didn't follow Cain back then so I don't know what her weight situation was. Anyway it's all in the past now. Not sure what her plans are for the future, but hopefully she can get on with her life and continue racing at some level.

I think the new wave of trans athletes, guys with man boobs, will make her a non entity in running. It's now a trans world.

stan the corgi wrote:

I think the new wave of trans athletes, guys with man boobs, will make her a non entity in running. It's now a trans world.

Yes, it is now a trans world. Out of a field of 256 runners in the female division of the NCAA championships, there was an alarming zero transgender athletes competing. It's only a matter of time before they dominate women's NCAA distance running.

YersiniaPestis wrote:

cant run your fastest when you are overweight... i dont care who your coach is... this is a universal truth.

I'm confused by this thread. My daughter's and I were watching a meet on TV several years ago and noticed immediately during her event that Cain had obviously put on about 15 pounds and the race result that day and in the future were predictable.

Could it be that she had just become tired of the spartan life style(and expectations) and just wanted to be young at that point in her life?

newredsun wrote:

YersiniaPestis wrote:

cant run your fastest when you are overweight... i dont care who your coach is... this is a universal truth.

I'm confused by this thread. My daughter's and I were watching a meet on TV several years ago and noticed immediately during her event that Cain had obviously put on about 15 pounds and the race result that day and in the future were predictable.

Could it be that she had just become tired of the spartan life style(and expectations) and just wanted to be young at that point in her life?

When was the race you saw? She was very thin when she was with Nike and was not running well.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

newredsun wrote:

I'm confused by this thread. My daughter's and I were watching a meet on TV several years ago and noticed immediately during her event that Cain had obviously put on about 15 pounds and the race result that day and in the future were predictable.

Could it be that she had just become tired of the spartan life style(and expectations) and just wanted to be young at that point in her life?

When was the race you saw? She was very thin when she was with Nike and was not running well.

I don't recall the year but I do remember it being a time where we were still expecting her to do well and it was the first time I'd seen the burgeoning apparel.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

newredsun wrote:

I'm confused by this thread. My daughter's and I were watching a meet on TV several years ago and noticed immediately during her event that Cain had obviously put on about 15 pounds and the race result that day and in the future were predictable.

Could it be that she had just become tired of the spartan life style(and expectations) and just wanted to be young at that point in her life?

When was the race you saw? She was very thin when she was with Nike and was not running well.

There was a point after she joined NOP in which I thought she looked bigger than she had as a HSer. My assumption was less weight gain than just normal growing as she got older. I think 15 pounds is a bit much but she definitely appeared larger as a human being than she had.

I realize you have spent a fair amount of time....at least a year....trying to pin this all on one issue but it isn't. There's likely multiple reasons for her decline and the one major reason may have been out of everyone's control.

When was that? I have never seen her very thin. Please point to a time that she was comparable to Schweizer or Hasan or Mu.