Mary Cain's running career is going nowhere

Sadly, username is one word. Second Cain was capable enough to say yes or no, some blame should be put on her parents. It’s insane to me that you think a 17 year old can’t make a choice for themselves. There were more than enough times to leave. There’s always resources in place. I don’t understand your logic ESPECIALLY when her parents were heavily involved in her career. You still didn’t answer what the difference was.

My main point was that those two have sucked the past couple years and could move to a different situation. It’s not impossible. Why stay in an abusive one of way relationship? Try to not get so riled up next time.

The Fokus wrote:

paul72 wrote:

agree-show me a runner that has significantly improved after turning pro rather than going to college...

Agee Wilson

Kenenisa Bekele. Eliud Kipchoge.

More weight = more stress = greater likelihood of fractures [/quote]

You are only partly correct. Being overweight can certainly increase impact force upon the bone. However, a runner who is heavier due to more muscle and bone mass has a much lower risk of getting stress fractures than an underweight runner. Muscles help to absorb shock that would otherwise be taken by the bone. In fact, research studies have shown that runners with a bigger calf circumference experience less stress fractures.

Salazar was not wrong in monitoring her weight and trying to influence it, as it is one of the principal variables tied to performance levels at the highest rungs of the sport. Arbitrary or not, that is the coach’s job and it is an art rather than science.[/quote]

Yes, but he was wrong in how he went about doing it. As other posters have mentioned, Mary's real talent was in the 800m, rather than longer distances. If she stayed as an 800m runner, it would not be of benefit to performance to research the unhealthy weight he wanted her to. To run a fast 800m, you benefit from having some muscle as opposed to being underweight. Salazar should have done body recomposition on Mary Cain as opposed to forced weight loss.

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not sure why that got broken up

jazzytherunner wrote:

More weight = more stress = greater likelihood of fractures

You are only partly correct. Being overweight can certainly increase impact force upon the bone. However, a runner who is heavier due to more muscle and bone mass has a much lower risk of getting stress fractures than an underweight runner. Muscles help to absorb shock that would otherwise be taken by the bone. In fact, research studies have shown that runners with a bigger calf circumference experience less stress fractures.

Salazar was not wrong in monitoring her weight and trying to influence it, as it is one of the principal variables tied to performance levels at the highest rungs of the sport. Arbitrary or not, that is the coach’s job and it is an art rather than science.[/quote]

Yes, but he was wrong in how he went about doing it. As other posters have mentioned, Mary's real talent was in the 800m, rather than longer distances. If she stayed as an 800m runner, it would not be of benefit to performance to research the unhealthy weight he wanted her to. To run a fast 800m, you benefit from having some muscle as opposed to being underweight. Salazar should have done body recomposition on Mary Cain as opposed to forced weight loss.[/quote]

al messed up. from it, maybe he would have learned a lesson not to mess with girls who are not done growing yet. coaching running is trial and error. this was a case of error.

in most cases, runners are able to bounce back from mistakes in coaching. for varying reasons, it has not happened in this case.

Please provide a study. East Africans have tiny calves.

The direction that this thread is going has drifted from disgusting to vile to probably the worst and meanest thread I have seen here.

For starters, I cannot believe that someone actually brought the late Gabriele Grunewald into this by way of BraveLikeGabe, a cancer survivor more than once and a heroine to many runners (RIP Gabe) in a comparison to Mary Cain.

Now, about Cain and the treatment of Cain:

First, regarding the constant slamming of Cain by the letsrun community with regard to the running community as a sport...

I will throw out a few names here:

Mario Mendoza

Uwe Von Schamann

Chris Dudley

Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards

Mario Mendoza will always have notoriety for a batting average that is known as "The Mendoza Line" because he was on one or the other side of .200 one season. Uwe Von Schamann was a relatively inaccurate placekicker in the NFL and had a short career. Chris Dudley was a tall center in the NBA but his statistics and his lack of ability to hold his ground in the paint made him a mediocre player. Eddie Edwards was well known for his tries in ski jumping in the Olympics.

However, Mendoza still made it to Major League Baseball. Von Schamann was still an NFL player. Dudley still played in the NBA. Edwards was still an Olympian.

How does this relate? Mary Cain was good enough to be a professional runner. Regardless of results, training, coaching, and other intangibles, she was a professional runner. Sam Bowie may have been drafted before Michael Jordan, but even though Bowie didn't pan out, nobody says anything about whether or not he should have been drafted at all.

What is going on with Mary Cain is more mean-spirited than any professional that had struggles have had to endure. This includes the first difficult baseball seasons for J.D. Drew and much less than post -Heisman quality from Gino Torretta, Danny Wuerffel and JaMarcus Russell. Conversely, they don't even get the same badmouthing that Cain has received.

In comparison, Mary Cain 's treatment within the running community here mirrors that of "Friday" singer Rebecca Black. Not only does Cain get treated like she had no business trying , she's also regarded like she is a fraud and gets far more vehement hatred than she should ever have, much like Black. In addition, even if her statistics and regard did not go as planned, she has not ever done anything to deserve the hatred, also similar to Black.

Second, the bodily evaluations and rendered opinions border on being predatory. There's been barely one body part of Cain that has not been regarded unfavorably and with less than appropriate terminology. Said directly to a female, some of these clauses that some of you use would likely get the police called on you for sexual harassment, even if the person is not a "Karen," so to speak . The mention of the "Karen" takes that out as a usable variable for a counter -argument.

Finally, the allowability of these things being said on what is supposed to be a running module is destructive to the spirit of running, runners, trying, failing, and trying again. I will never understand the need for people here to be so mean to Mary Cain for what may be going on close to seven years. I am more certain that the people who are doing this abuse to Cain are likely prone to abuse stray animals, and possibly a wife or kids.

Either way, abusive threads and language regarding Mary Cain should no longer be allowed here. Period.

haven't read the thread but Rojo should restore Flvmmox's (i think) post with A*** K********'s twitter bio, it was funny and pertinent

I agree that any abusive posts should be deleted but I am unaware of any. Women and men are equal. If Drew Hunter puts on 10 pounds and starts running 13:40 and then blames Tinman for telling him the cause of his decline is the 10 pounds, there would be 1000 posts calling Hunter a crybaby and a fatty. I haven't seen any posts that blunt in regards to Cain. I would be interested for you to point them out and I will click the report button on them.

Exactly! And I don't be that people should be able to post that in response. Accordingly, any post that does is abusive.

Flotrack rocks wrote:

I agree that any abusive posts should be deleted but I am unaware of any. Women and men are equal. If Drew Hunter puts on 10 pounds and starts running 13:40 and then blames Tinman for telling him the cause of his decline is the 10 pounds, there would be 1000 posts calling Hunter a crybaby and a fatty. I haven't seen any posts that blunt in regards to Cain. I would be interested for you to point them out and I will click the report button on them.

Be should be think.

And no..they are not equal.

Call most men fat and they may not care or may try to lift or workout to lose the weight.

Call most women fat and it can lead to bulimia, anorexia, depression, etc.

Luckily more women are appreciative of their bodies but it's not the same.

I agree with Flotrack. Don' t get me wrong you make some good points, but the majority of posts on here have not hated on Cain. Of course there is the obvious idiot troll posts...but welcome to the internet....but these don't reflect the majority. Most posters have their opinion and have taken a side in this debate...which they are welcome to do.

First of all though, you are saying Cain has received more hate than JaMarcus Russell or others of his ilk...I'm sorry, but you definitely were not on other boards, reading sports mags, or watching National Sports shows....Cain's negativity is a drop in the Ocean compared the level of coverage on the failures of these people. The average sports fan has no idea who Cain is. Yet google the websites that were calling Russell overweight...CBS, USAToday, Bleacher report, SI, ESPN...sorry there is no comparison here. But also, no one lashed back at the NFL or the coaches...he was a professional athlete and was expected to show up in-shape. There was ZERO sympathy for him

Nobody can question how good Cain was in HS, results don't lie...and she was obviously good enough to turn pro immediately after...but the real issue is should she have? You can look at Tuohy's times when she was in grade 11...she ran several races that would have made her very competitive as a pro at that moment....obviously though turning pro at that point would be a horrible decision. Nobody would question that. Yet Cain turned pro at 17.

I have no doubt that Salazar was a terrible coach for Cain...and the things he said were harsh, especially when in reference to a 17 yr old girl. But she was a professional...whether she is a 17 yr old female or a 22 year old male....there are expectations. She went downhill fairly quickly after turning pro. Was that all Salazar, or was she perhaps not ready for the pressure of turning pro, the increased workouts, etc etc.....very likely it was a combination of both.

In every interview or article I have seen with Cain, she has never accepted any responsibility...it was all Salazar and Nike...I'm not saying that she hasn't taken some, just not that I have seen.

Ok. So I'll ask this accepting the premise that JaMarcus Russell received more hate across more boards for not being Pro-Ready after becoming a pro...

Isn't it infinitely more acceptable morally for grown men to throw a point of criticism at Russell, considering it is men insulting men, than it is for men to criticize Mary Cain, especially regarding body shape and weight?

First of all, you are making the assumption that it was men insulting Russell....there is a massive female fan base in the NFL...it is wrong to assume that none of them were making comments.

Second, what does that matter. Turning professional means you are being paid to perform. Along with turning professional, making the money and potentially the fame also comes criticism if you do not perform. Heck, you will get criticized if you do perform!! This is what I was referring to when saying that she likely wasn't mentally prepared for this at 17. That's no knock on Cain...who is ready at 17 to take on those expectations and that exposure!!! If you are saying that she shouldn't be open for criticism by coaches, fans or message boards...then she shouldn't have turned pro....I'm not saying the criticism was right, but it is very likely going to happen.

Does a 17 yr old Cain know that? Probably not...but her parent should have. Her HS coaches should have. ETC ETC.

The question of whether men should be able to comment (positive /negative ) about a female athlete is completely wrong...Should a female be able to comment on a male athlete? Of course...to expect it should not go the other way is completely sexist. And one final point...even though women are fans of sports, the vast majority of viewers/attendees of these sporting events are male. They are the majority of the paying customer that allows these sports to exist...are you saying they should not be able to give their feedback??

+1

And to be clear, I am not saying that shaming is acceptable at all. Male or female. It is horrible.

But there is a difference between shaming and making informed comments. Russell was horribly overweight...that's not shaming..simply a truth.

If a female is out of shape, saying so should not be taken as shaming.

Again, I'm not saying Cain was out of shape...I have no idea if she was or not.

She needs the magic coach JS . But of course it will most truly not happen.