Help me break 3 hours in the marathon

Have you run any marathons yet? 85 and change is a good starting point for breaking 3, but it's far from a given.

At one point I had an 88 minute half but only a 3:22 full marathon PB.

What mileage were you doing when you ran 85 minutes? Was it the same 50mpw more or less? If so, I'd recommend trying to get to 60-65 mpw.

Just do some tempo runs and some long runs with MP mixed in. Then give it a shot! You'll probably feel slow going out in 89 minutes or so, but resist the temptation to go faster. If you feel like you have more juice, you can speed up once you hit 22-23 miles :)

I don't have Pfitzinger's book (Advanced Marathoning) available right now but I believe he has programs for several different time frames, from around 12 weeks to 25 weeks. Great training plans and I'm sure you can find a 12-week plan.

Pfitzinger or Daniels. Don't sweat the details too much. Long run is key when moving up to the marathon. If you can get from 50 to 60 mpw, you'll have a shot at sub-3.

Slow Bro wrote:

Have you run any marathons yet? 85 and change is a good starting point for breaking 3, but it's far from a given.

At one point I had an 88 minute half but only a 3:22 full marathon PB.

What mileage were you doing when you ran 85 minutes? Was it the same 50mpw more or less? If so, I'd recommend trying to get to 60-65 mpw.

Just do some tempo runs and some long runs with MP mixed in. Then give it a shot! You'll probably feel slow going out in 89 minutes or so, but resist the temptation to go faster. If you feel like you have more juice, you can speed up once you hit 22-23 miles :)

I ran the 85 min half off of 6 months of consistent 50 miles/week (including a 4 week stretch of 55 miles/week 3 months out). A month prior to the half, I solo time-trialed a 38:33 10k on the track in trainers.

Some more details about the 85 min half was

- I was alone after the first 5km (I was 4th and 3rd place built a 40-sec gap in the first 5k, eventually beating me by 1:50). My target marathon is an IAAF gold-labeled road race, and there should be plenty of folks within seconds of me.

- I was wearing Hoka carbon X. Supposedly not really a super shoe according to the letsrun podcast. I will run the marathon in Nike Vaporflys

- Temperature was 61 degrees with 80% humidity. The typical conditions for my marathon location/date is 56 degrees with 55% humidity.

1:25 bodes well for sub-3. Just find a plan that puts you, at least, in the 50-60 range. Focus on the medium long runs and long run. You should be able to get there.

When I ran a 1;18 everyone said you will go under 3.

Didn't happen, still bummed !

How about posting some workouts that will help get that sub-3? Everyone knows that mileage is king and you should think about getting to that 55 to 70 range. I think you need a 22 mile long run to safely and confidently cover the full distance.

1. One girl I used to run with used to do a 20-miler in which every other mile was a sub-7 pace.

So....

Mile 1: 8:20

Mile 2: 8:10

Mile 3: 6:50

Mile 4: 7:30

Mile 5: 6:45

Mile 6: 7:30....

Mile 7: 6:51

....you get the idea.

2. 15 miles easy with the last 5 at a good hard tempo pace.

3. 10 miles easy + 3 miles tempo + 2 miles easy + 3 miles tempo + 2 miles easy.

4. 22 miles easy with the last 3 mile cutting down to sub-7 pace.

5. A good 8x1K workout at Sub-6 pace with 1 minute standing rest. Or race a 10K.

6. I see the benefits of a hard 12x200m (preferrably on hills) to establish good turnover and power. Make sure to take a few easy days after this or maybe a day off to get the legs back.

Pfitzinger's book is on point and will get you there.

You should be able to go sub3 but honestly race day will probably be as big of a factor as anything. You are fit and have the ability so that's a given, but the stuff you can't control like weather or simply "having a bad day" will play a huge factor.

stick to the old advice from any and all marathon article/threads

-negative split

-don't do ANYTHING on race day you haven't done in a long training run. (food, shoes, shorts, gu, morning routine..) try to control for as many of the "uncontrolables" as possible.

-stick to your pacing plan

-do a 26k TT about 3-4 weeks out to establish all your protocols.

good luck

I would add some more uptempo running into the mix, 1x a week is fine. 4-5 mile tempo at about your HM pace (maybe slightly faster) or if you don't like the grind of that - intervals like 5-6x1200 with 1 min rest. Some work at 6:00-6:30 pace will make MP pace feel really easy on race day. At least for me I did very little work at goal MP pace, but when I broke 3 after my taper that pace felt super-easy.

You'll find Pfitzinger's training plans here:

https://www.defy.org/hacks/calendarhack/

I recommend getting the book. It will help you understand why you're doing what you're doing on any given day, and how to adjust if necessary.

Based on what you've written here, the 12 week, 55-70 mpw plan should get you fit enough. The thing about the marathon, however, is that there are a number of things that can go wrong on race day.

In particular, I'd spend the next 12 weeks fine-tuning your plan for nutrition. That includes what to eat the day before, and the day of before the race. And, of course, what to take in during the race. I think that's the most common hurdle for first time marathoners chasing a sub 3 finish.

Good luck with your training!

That calendar hack is absolutely fantastic.

Does anyone know of a template or app like that calendar hack where one can input a training plan template and it will format the information into a calendar?

Double your half marathon time and add ten minutes for a reasonably close projection for your full marathon, assuming you've trained properly. Your 1:25 half marathon projects to about 3 hours, again, assuming you've trained properly.

The number one de-railer of first marathon attempts is improper pacing, namely going out too fast. You've trained hard and rested, you feel great and you're excited; it's hard NOT to go out too fast. If you pace properly, you'll look around in the first mile and see all these sorry runners that you KNOW you're better than, and everything inside you will scream to pick up the pace. Don't do it - those sorry runners around you a mile 1 will be walking at mile 23. Stick to the plan.

I don't, but I've been seriously thinking about making one. I'll let you know if I do.

Pfitzinger is a decent investment.

The three things I think are key to the marathon:

1. Including marathon pace at the end of your long run. Build up from 3 miles at marathon pace until you can do 20 miles with the second 10 at MP. I'd do this maybe 6 weeks out as you'll need recovery time.

2. Midweek medium-long run of 13-16 miles

3. Maintaining some speedwork sessions, you want MP to feel a lot easier than your top end

Run161.com wrote:

You'll find Pfitzinger's training plans here:

https://www.defy.org/hacks/calendarhack/

Anyone happen to know if there's a way to get this into Garmin connect?

Best advice I got was from Kathrine Switzer: Go out In 1:30 or 1:31, no faster.

I had failed a bunch of times, 3:03 to 3:06. Following that, did a negative split 2:57. Man it feels good to not slow down!

Slowest miles should be 1 and 2.