How fast will untrained, gifted 15 year old boy run the mile?

2:17 800 yesterday. Starting to get a feel for racing.

Genetic experiment wrote:

No helicopter anything here. Mom and I give advice when it is solicited, but best to let him find his own way w/this and most other things in life.

You both have actual experience in the thing he's interested, so I don't see why offering more than the advice that he seeks is inappropriate. Certainly doesn't make you a helicopter parent if you are actively involved in your son's interests. And because you've both "been there and done that" you could do more than just let him "find his own way." Obviously you don't want to be overbearing and overly controlling. But based on your experiences and the knowledge of who your son is, you will likely know what's best for him.

Lol

Yeah I agree. You could at least just offer some support and see how he feels about it. Let it be his choice though. He's young enough it's important to enjoy things and stay healthy. Plenty of years to improve later on if he wants. Even with meh coaching he'll be under 5 asap. And probably 440 next year. That's fine progress for now.

who knows? wrote:

CopperRunner wrote:

Some people can run a mile in 5:30 without training, train, and then run 5:10. Some runners run 5:30 without training, train, and then run 4:10.

+1.

It's a total crapshoot; Jim Ryun ran a 5:38 mile as an untrained sophomore but then became the first HSer to run sub 4:

https://www.kansas.com/news/article1145253.html

Ryun was arguably the most talented American miler in history so I call bullsh*t on the 5:38 story. He would have been able to break 5:00 as a 7th grader.

Gerry Lindgren in middle school had runner's dystonia and would keep falling over. He told a story of how he couldn't open the door of his high school on the first day, he was probably just turning the knob the wrong way.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

who knows? wrote:

+1.

It's a total crapshoot; Jim Ryun ran a 5:38 mile as an untrained sophomore but then became the first HSer to run sub 4:

https://www.kansas.com/news/article1145253.html

Ryun was arguably the most talented American miler in history so I call bullsh*t on the 5:38 story. He would have been able to break 5:00 as a 7th grader.

Talent includes more than just being able to run fast off of no training. "Super-responders" to training who can handle high mileage and intensity without breaking down are arguably more talented than those who can run well off of 0 MPW.

I know two guys who proved this. Guy #1 ran an untrained 5:20 mile in middle school and never broke 5 in HS despite joining track and XC for all 4 years. Guy #2 had a hard time finishing a mile without walking in middle school and might not have broken 8 at that time. He gained almost a foot of height in HS, did 70-90 MPW in college, and ended up running a sub 4 1500.

5 min mile would be impressive. I recall reading Arturo Barrios ran 17 5K with no absolutely no training in HS gym class.

I was 10 years old won the 1 mile X c in 5:30.

Was a jumper who was injured and ended up a 400 m guy.

The real issue is you all have limits on yourselves.

OP if your son is as good as you say at sportball [football/soccer ?] mayhaps try to lead him that way? Usually results in better outcomes in their place in society vs say CC

Have We Done This Before wrote:

OP if your son is as good as you say at sportball [football/soccer ?] mayhaps try to lead him that way? Usually results in better outcomes in their place in society vs say CC

A better outcome in their place in society? Soccer was an invisible sport at my HS and I can't remember a single guy that played on the team.

ymmv.... wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Ryun was arguably the most talented American miler in history so I call bullsh*t on the 5:38 story. He would have been able to break 5:00 as a 7th grader.

Talent includes more than just being able to run fast off of no training. "Super-responders" to training who can handle high mileage and intensity without breaking down are arguably more talented than those who can run well off of 0 MPW.

I know two guys who proved this. Guy #1 ran an untrained 5:20 mile in middle school and never broke 5 in HS despite joining track and XC for all 4 years. Guy #2 had a hard time finishing a mile without walking in middle school and might not have broken 8 at that time. He gained almost a foot of height in HS, did 70-90 MPW in college, and ended up running a sub 4 1500.

I still don't buy it. Aftet his 5:38, he runs his XC season, doesn't run a step during the winter, but runs 4:21 his first meet and improves to 4:07. No way.

People on here like to use the word "responder" but I consider it to be a running buzzword.

Ryun did not gain almost a foot of height over the winter of his sophomore year.

So with training I think yes he should be able to get down to 5 by the end of his season, the challenge with younger runners even those with immense natural talent is knowing what your body can do which is where training comes in. If your son starts doing interval and speed workouts and compliments his track training with some longer weekend runs I don't think its unrealistic to see him progress to the low 5:0X or even crack 5 this season but that depends on how hard he works. I had a better level of fitness in high school than at times when I was older but I didn't always push myself as hard especially when just running on my own and not with my track team. So that 5:26 he ran (especially if he hit 73 seconds on last lap) could have been a 5:15 or even faster simply with more exertion at the beginning of the race, better pacing, etc. While it's frowned upon to do hill sprints until you throw-up anymore such practice sessions helped younger athletes know how hard to push themselves.

I was not a great track athlete but okay and my sophomore year we had a very snowy winter such that I didn't get to train until the beginning of our season. I started out at 5:32 my first meet (very rusty) having run a 5:25 as a freshman and then finished the season with a PR of 5:05 at age 15 (almost 16 by end of season). I only lowered that PR by 10 seconds the next year and another 10 my senior year though track was not my primary focus and we didn't have a real track at my high school so practices were limited and not usually as robust as they could be. Based on my times now I think if I had better facilities and trained harder I could have been a much faster runner. Anyone who can run a mile under 5:30 cold at 15 has potential, what results they will ultimately achieve depends on training and drive.

Genetic experiment wrote:

2:17 800 yesterday. Starting to get a feel for racing.

He's probably about in sub-5 shape now give or take. With the little training he's done, it's no wonder if he develops into a 800m runner first. 27 second 200s are good but not great for a young mid d guy.

It’s not unreasonable to assume that nobody cares about what your son might run

If you throw this kid into multiple 30-40 min runs and workouts the likelyhood of him getting injured is high. 10-15 mins jogs/runs on GRASS to start slowly building - staying on grass as much as possible. Start with striders to work on range of motion. have him stretch and do dynamic drills. If youor you wife are still running you cn do all of this with him. Fartlek at a park would be a good progession and FUN! Better that he enjoy it andwant more than hammer him and he gets injured. IMO.

Have We Done This Before wrote:

OP if your son is as good as you say at sportball [football/soccer ?] mayhaps try to lead him that way? Usually results in better outcomes in their place in society vs say CC

He could play college soccer if he wanted to. Probably as a walk-on. Does not seem all that interested in it though. We are definitely all for keeping his options open.

and another coach wrote:

Genetic experiment wrote:

No helicopter anything here. Mom and I give advice when it is solicited, but best to let him find his own way w/this and most other things in life.

You both have actual experience in the thing he's interested, so I don't see why offering more than the advice that he seeks is inappropriate. Certainly doesn't make you a helicopter parent if you are actively involved in your son's interests. And because you've both "been there and done that" you could do more than just let him "find his own way." Obviously you don't want to be overbearing and overly controlling. But based on your experiences and the knowledge of who your son is, you will likely know what's best for him.

Appreciate this and the post from "Renewed Marathoner." We definitely talk splits, strategy, etc. but I only speak when spoken to and stay out of the way. There's some natural pressure he feels from having 2 parents who were high level runners. Often times, the best thing to say is nothing at all. Not at all involved in his coaching and workouts, but if he shows interest in staying at it for more than one season , I will be.

amchugh89 wrote:

It’s not unreasonable to assume that nobody cares about what your son might run

Ha. You're pretty much spot-on there, but the thread is not about 1 particular kid. Well, it is I suppose, but the topic addresses what a genetically gifted kid who steps on the track cold can do. Could be anyone who has parents who are/were gifted runners, but happens to be my kid in this instance. Now stop using double negatives and pi$$ off .