A lot of people will claim that running doubles is not necessary until you're at 70+ mpw. I trust that they know what they're talking about, but always wonder about a few things.
1) For someone who's slightly injury prone, wouldn't it be a little easier to run 6 in the morning and 3 in the evening at times, than just 9 straight?
2) Sometimes time off is a real benefit. I get that, which might contradict #1. I feel like my body heals well when I get one solid day of no running. I know it's best to run everyday for blood volume, but in the interest of staying healthy, why not sneak in a few short doubles and then take one full day off? Maybe do a couple of 30 min walks on the off day, but a double or two could give the benefit of allowing a rest day.
3) Does it matter on event? That is, if I'm training for things that aren't at the M/HM level, could doubling (and it's HGH benefit) be useful at lower volumes?
Looking for Insight on Why Doubling Is Not Recommended for 50-60 mpw
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You gotta optimize your singles mileage before you can do doubles beneficially.
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I think most of the people who say to do doubles once you hit 70+ miles a week are coming at it from a super optimum train perspective. The kind of thinking that applies to strong, healthy individuals, largely in their mid-20s +/- a few years.
A lot of us are not there. I'm in my early 40s and I find that doubling is excellent once I hit around 60 mpw. It just makes it easier for me to get more miles in and feel better while doing it. I git a really nice fitness bump once I get there. 70+ in singles is not nearly as productive. For me.
I don't know if it matters on the event. I run 5k to marathon and for me, my own rule applies across distances. It's all running.
As for using doubles to keep your weekly miles higher while getting a day off, yeah, go for it. I also think this is a good time to remember that what really counts is miles over time, not miles during a week. So if hitting some doubles here and there and taking a day off allows you to stack up months and months of volume, then that is super beneficial to you. To YOU, being the key there.
More rambling here, but my current theory of training comes down to two things. Do the training that feels good to you physically, and do the training that feels good to you mentally/psychologically. Hit those two things and you can keep going for a long time, and that will bring solid results. -
I’m a high schooler, I wouldn’t be allowed to hit 70 mpw in singles, I’m only allowed to do like 35 a week
But with doubles I can hit 60 a week or so
One of those gives me two stimulus and let’s me run twice a day, I like running so I double -
STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^ wrote:
You gotta optimize your singles mileage before you can do doubles beneficially.
Why?
Anyone can benefit from a double. Obviously 70MPW in singles is different than 70MPW with 5 doubles. Same for any mileage number. it’s a way to vary total running volume and stress from training, and every individual is going to have a different way to do that optimally at different times in their season. Saying someone shouldn’t double because they aren’t hitting x arbitrary number of miles is stupid. Doubles strategically placed could benefit someone immensely, maybe as a recovery tool, a way to build mileage safely, or for some other reason. If you’re doing or not doing something with your training, you should have a purpose that’s more thought out than “letsrun keyboard coaches say don’t double unless I’m hitting 100MPW” -
STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^ wrote:
You gotta optimize your singles mileage before you can do doubles beneficially.
Provide evidence for this claim. You are super smart, so this shouldn't be hard. -
it depends whether you are a marathoner or an 800m specialist
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keepgoing wrote:
I think most of the people who say to do doubles once you hit 70+ miles a week are coming at it from a super optimum train perspective. The kind of thinking that applies to strong, healthy individuals, largely in their mid-20s +/- a few years.
A lot of us are not there. I'm in my early 40s and I find that doubling is excellent once I hit around 60 mpw. It just makes it easier for me to get more miles in and feel better while doing it. I git a really nice fitness bump once I get there. 70+ in singles is not nearly as productive. For me.
I don't know if it matters on the event. I run 5k to marathon and for me, my own rule applies across distances. It's all running.
As for using doubles to keep your weekly miles higher while getting a day off, yeah, go for it. I also think this is a good time to remember that what really counts is miles over time, not miles during a week. So if hitting some doubles here and there and taking a day off allows you to stack up months and months of volume, then that is super beneficial to you. To YOU, being the key there.
More rambling here, but my current theory of training comes down to two things. Do the training that feels good to you physically, and do the training that feels good to you mentally/psychologically. Hit those two things and you can keep going for a long time, and that will bring solid results.
Thanks, this was really helpful. -
My team has two double runs per week no matter what events you're doing (usually 800-10k runners). Weekly mileage ranges from 45-75mpw, the doubles are always done in the mornings of workout days 3-5miles shakeout, must be done before 12pm, then workouts later that afternoon.
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Running the milage in singles will benefit your fitness more, don’t think that’s really a question.
If you wouldn’t be able to run 50mpw in singles because it’d probably get you injured, then by all means do the doubles, better to get the milage in somehow.
If you’re training for like 1500-5k, I’d argue you’d be better off doing like 40 in singles. A 2 mile jog in the mornings won’t help significantly and just increases injury risk. If you’re training for like 10k+ it’s basically all aerobic so the volume is more important -
indoorszn wrote:
Running the milage in singles will benefit your fitness more, don’t think that’s really a question.
Can you provide the clear evidence that singles provide more fitness benefit than doubles for a given weekly volume? -
silvery gold wrote:
A lot of people will claim that running doubles is not necessary until you're at 70+ mpw. I trust that they know what they're talking about, but always wonder about a few things.
1) For someone who's slightly injury prone, wouldn't it be a little easier to run 6 in the morning and 3 in the evening at times, than just 9 straight?
2) Sometimes time off is a real benefit. I get that, which might contradict #1. I feel like my body heals well when I get one solid day of no running. I know it's best to run everyday for blood volume, but in the interest of staying healthy, why not sneak in a few short doubles and then take one full day off? Maybe do a couple of 30 min walks on the off day, but a double or two could give the benefit of allowing a rest day.
3) Does it matter on event? That is, if I'm training for things that aren't at the M/HM level, could doubling (and it's HGH benefit) be useful at lower volumes?
I disagree with this "rule". I just listened to an old trainer (with 50 years of experience) saying that for 5k training he would rather do doubles and even tripplets than going longer since the distance is limited. There is also diminishing returns the longer the workout. From 30-40min most of the effect has been achieved and doing longer gives much less per minute.
I aim at 15-30min race times and I am 50 and have now tried both long workouts and split them in 2. There is research saying that such as 2 longer workouts per week is better than 4 shorter (you dig less deep with 4 than 2), but this is something else than the discussion on singles/doubles. When I split, I do not get so tired the first workout and I am fresh on the second. I recover some during the day and the aches and pains are less. The Ingebrigtsens are doing double thresholds to maximize the quality = pace over the two workouts and believe splitting is better than a long single.
I do doubles workouts Tuesday and Thursday and have more or less running free mondays and fridays since I hit the milage anyway. I then do easy bike to recover those days. This works very good for my legs. I plan on increasing milage with 15 mpw and will try to do this by adding 3 short evening runs. Again adding doubles to recover better, run more and perturbe the body more often with training to increase adaptation. -
The main reason I like doubling is that it allows me flexibility to just get in the runs whenever I can. Don't have time every day for a 75 minute run, but can usually get two smaller blocks so the total running time is around that. I agree with the person who says this is not the IDEAL, but I'm not a pro runner so who cares - it is providing me higher mileage. And I usually do 60-70 a week.
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silvery gold wrote:
A lot of people will claim that running doubles is not necessary until you're at 70+ mpw. I trust that they know what they're talking about, but always wonder about a few things.
1) For someone who's slightly injury prone, wouldn't it be a little easier to run 6 in the morning and 3 in the evening at times, than just 9 straight?
2) Sometimes time off is a real benefit. I get that, which might contradict #1. I feel like my body heals well when I get one solid day of no running. I know it's best to run everyday for blood volume, but in the interest of staying healthy, why not sneak in a few short doubles and then take one full day off? Maybe do a couple of 30 min walks on the off day, but a double or two could give the benefit of allowing a rest day.
3) Does it matter on event? That is, if I'm training for things that aren't at the M/HM level, could doubling (and it's HGH benefit) be useful at lower volumes?
I agree with most of what keepgoing wrote. Singles up until 70 mpw or so makes sense if you're looking to get the most bang for buck out of each and every mile.
There are plenty of good reasons to double before that, however. Being injury prone, as you mention in your first point, is a good reason. The load of 5+4 or 6+3 miles spread across two runs will be lower than one 9 mile run.
A rest day is another reason. I've done training blocks with average and peak weekly mileage at 80+ and around 95. With a rest day. Mentally, the rest days are exceptionally valuable to me. And one day where nobody has to plan according to my running is a good way to compromise with my better half :)
The key to deciding when and if to double is simply to look at your individual circumstances. Ask yourself what your goals are, and how can you best achieve them? And, of course, what's practical given your life situation?
With regards to the latter, I'm now running only singles, and trying to maximise training load that way. But a couple of months from now, I'll probably be doubling every weekday, because run communting will be the sensible option (finger's crossed!). -
Run161.com wrote:
silvery gold wrote:
A lot of people will claim that running doubles is not necessary until you're at 70+ mpw. I trust that they know what they're talking about, but always wonder about a few things.
1) For someone who's slightly injury prone, wouldn't it be a little easier to run 6 in the morning and 3 in the evening at times, than just 9 straight?
2) Sometimes time off is a real benefit. I get that, which might contradict #1. I feel like my body heals well when I get one solid day of no running. I know it's best to run everyday for blood volume, but in the interest of staying healthy, why not sneak in a few short doubles and then take one full day off? Maybe do a couple of 30 min walks on the off day, but a double or two could give the benefit of allowing a rest day.
3) Does it matter on event? That is, if I'm training for things that aren't at the M/HM level, could doubling (and it's HGH benefit) be useful at lower volumes?
I agree with most of what keepgoing wrote. Singles up until 70 mpw or so makes sense if you're looking to get the most bang for buck out of each and every mile.
There are plenty of good reasons to double before that, however. Being injury prone, as you mention in your first point, is a good reason. The load of 5+4 or 6+3 miles spread across two runs will be lower than one 9 mile run.
A rest day is another reason. I've done training blocks with average and peak weekly mileage at 80+ and around 95. With a rest day. Mentally, the rest days are exceptionally valuable to me. And one day where nobody has to plan according to my running is a good way to compromise with my better half :)
The key to deciding when and if to double is simply to look at your individual circumstances. Ask yourself what your goals are, and how can you best achieve them? And, of course, what's practical given your life situation?
With regards to the latter, I'm now running only singles, and trying to maximise training load that way. But a couple of months from now, I'll probably be doubling every weekday, because run communting will be the sensible option (finger's crossed!).
Thank you. And ya, I love the run commute!
