Should doctors who can't perform surgery or invasive procedures really be considered to be true physicians?

There's a lot of incompetent doctors that society automatically hands their trust to (the same way they blindly give the government their trust). I sure as hell would not want all physicians to be eligible to perform surgery. There would be a lot more botch ups.

Medicine is medicine, surgery is surgery. I think you're getting the two confused?

Yes, a PA or nurse can perform a history and examination, do a risk assessment, spot red flags, make recommendations and prescribe medicines. In general they don't have as broad a knowledge as a doctor but some do.

Those same PA's, nurses etc could also do surgery if they were allowed. It's ridiculous to suggest that doctors are better than all other medical staff. Even more ridiculous to claim that only surgeons are better than all other medical staff, including medical doctors.

You sound like a surgeon...

People actually argue the opposite and I tend to agree with them. Speaking as a surgeon, the hard part of medicine is figuring out what the problem is; not cutting it out. Literally anyone with good dexterity could learn how to take out an appendix or fix a femur or even take out a brain tumour. Not everyone can connect the dots to make a diagnosis.

Well, that's where imaging comes in and good radiologists.

Well, Dr. Jill is pretty good at propping up dementia patients.

You talk as if surgeons don't diagnose. Of course you do. And when you are making your diagnosis, do you even look at the radiologist's reading of your images? If you're like most surgeons, you do (and should) read the imaging yourself, because the surgeon is even better at reading than the radiologist who supposedly specializes in that very thing.

Traditionally people have looked at medical vs surgical as a dichotomy. I would say instead that medical docs know medicine, while surgical physicians know medicine AND surgery. Gen surg can manage a septic patient. The IM hospitalist can't perform a lap chole. Hell, IM can't even change the packing in a drained abscess, which is a process that most patients can be taught to do for themselves at home after discharge. They have to call in a surgical consult even for that.

You're obviously not even remotely involved in the medical field.

Everybody plays a role.

Your original premise lacks sufficient support to be taken seriously. But to play along, a physician need not be a surgeon or perform invasive procedures to qualify as an MD, just as a lawyer need not be a litigator to be considered a lawyer (in fact, some of the most respected and highest earning lawyers never litigate). Similarly you could postulate that dramatic actors are at the top of the acting profession and fiction novelists are at the top of the writing profession, but that doesn't mean that comedic actors are not actors and non-fiction authors are not writers.

The obsession with surgery fixing things is why medical care is so $$$$ in the US

2600 bro wrote:The obsession with surgery fixing things is why medical care is so $$$$ in the US

No, it's all the lawyers suing everyone else for poor or inadequate medical care whether it is real or not that drives up the price.

How hard can it be to take out someone's appendix? Most people have done dissections in biology class. Same thing but with more blood. Just follow the instructions!

There have been people out on adventures in the middle of the ocean who were talked remotely through abdominal surgery on themselves. In terms of complexity it's probably like assembling a u-build bicycle. A shop mechanic whizzes right through the assembly, but the regular person has to follow the instructions. Many fail but only because they don't follow the instructions!

Should have said "one of the reasons why" E.g. the US does like 3-5X more back surgeries for chronic pain than UK/Canada with the same rate of back pain and no change in long term outcomes.

Chasing Ambulances wrote:

2600 bro wrote:The obsession with surgery fixing things is why medical care is so $$$$ in the US

No, it's all the lawyers suing everyone else for poor or inadequate medical care whether it is real or not that drives up the price.

Surgeons cut. If you go to one, that’s what will happen.

Everything in your original post is incorrect.

It’s also for profit insurance companies and too many overpaid hospital administrators, highest health care administrative costs in the world

OP is an idiot btw (surgeon here)

You really don't understand that giving people the right medication can be really complicated and important and save millions of lives

Pas and nurse practitioners can do surgery, so that's not the distinction between doctors and other practitioners

Basically doctors have the most amount of training and depth of knowledge, in general! Why wouldn't it be important to have really well-trained people in every branch of medicine

Anyway your post is just incredibly ridiculous and lacks any understanding of medicine and Common Sense

Doctor's have at least seven years of training and often times up to 10 or 12 years of education, and that is needed in all fields of medicine!

Yes, you can have other practitioners who have don't have quite the extensive training doing a lot of things in all areas of Medicine , but it's good to have them Consulting with and learning from people who have greater depth of training

It's weird that you wouldn't understand that treating someone's heart or liver or kidneys with medicine can be really complicated and getting them the right medicine and the right dosage, can be the difference between life and death

I would certainly want the ability to at least consult with someone who has possibly up to 10 years of education in the field as well as whatever years of actual experience

Physician assistant only has 2 years of education, they can be great and can do a lot

but if I have heart problems and need medication I'd want the ability to consult someone who has 10 years of experience to make sure I'm getting the right medication. The PA can certainly oversee your monthly visits or whatever and provide a great service

Anyway your post is really out of touch with medicine

It's the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons.

Just saying....

Dude seriously wrote:

You really don't understand that giving people the right medication can be really complicated and important and save millions of lives

It's weird that you wouldn't understand that treating someone's heart or liver or kidneys with medicine can be really complicated and getting them the right medicine and the right dosage, can be the difference between life and death

I would certainly want the ability to at least consult with someone who has possibly up to 10 years of education in the field as well as whatever years of actual experience

Agreed

I work in the hospital and physican is the most common profession of those I went to high school with. A true physican is most likely someone who was a bit clumsy as a child, was a nerd trough high school, got good grades and wanted to study medicine. As to surgery... Most of the smartest physicans I know are not surgeons. In the old days engineers didnt study as much science as today, but did more physical work. Do you not consider todays engineers to be engineers?