You will probably run some amazing times while in the army. Every army guy I talk to tells me they are really, really fast. I guess the training they do is so elite that they can't help it.
You will probably run some amazing times while in the army. Every army guy I talk to tells me they are really, really fast. I guess the training they do is so elite that they can't help it.
Anne Archist wrote:
on.my.own wrote:
Feel like signing up as riflemen just for the experience and discipline, but its a long commitment which i cant get out of if i dont like it...
A good life experience would be to go help the poor people that the US military bombs, there are so many to choose from.
Even helping the poor in USA who would be doing better if the US military did not suck so much money out of US social spending. Tens of thousands in USA die each year so USA can kill people in foreign countries.
LBJ lost his War on Poverty in Vietnam, and that war too.
I've been censored here for posting similar criticism.
Oh Please wrote:
on.my.own wrote:
Feel like signing up as riflemen just for the experience and discipline, but its a long commitment which i cant get out of if i dont like it...
If you're like most...going enlisted, no degree (therefore no "easy" path to commission), then I say it is not worth it.
I was in '93 to '97. There are so many variables, from MOS to duty station that can change your experience, and I was in missile electronics (27 series) and I was stationed in non-combat areas, yet it felt like a total waste of time. I was seriously disillusioned when I left and 25 years later, I'm still disillusioned.
For most part, military made up of poor people that had no choice, and their time in Army doesn't really change their lot in life either, except that you can get a VA loan. You have those that are looking to get out as soon as possible, and those looking for their 20. You'll find you look down on civilians and think you're alpha, but at end of the day, YOU are the sucker.
I do think going through one of the academies is a good deal if you can get in...I was not aware of how important it was until many years after I was out. In the real world, no one really cares if you were an E4 or even an E7.,..,but if you were a Major or something, it carries some heft in the business world.
I'm enlisted. Make over $70k. Never pay a health insurance premium. Have a pension waiting when I hit 20. Will have preference for some other overpaid gubment job when I get out.
Yea I'm the sucker. To each their own tho!
Alan
1) Poor or lower middle class.
2) Grew up in a small town and/or rural area in the south or midwest.
Consider joining the Army ONLY if you meet both criteria.
All the US military I know are either middle or upper class.
70k? I'd kill to make that--I make 38k now. I could not join the military due to congenital birth defects (blind in my right eye).
on.my.own wrote:
Feel like signing up as riflemen just for the experience and discipline, but its a long commitment which i cant get out of if i dont like it...
From an officer's perspective - I'll tell you what I tell anyone who wants to join.
I would not enlist as a generic rifleman. Those soldiers truly emerge with no transferrable skills. Yes, there's discipline involved, but the "experience" is not what you would have gotten in the heyday of the GWOT. You'll train, and you likely won't deploy, and if you do deploy, you probably won't see combat. If you want that type of experience (combat), enlist into the Ranger Regiment or Special Forces. But, if you're already worried about not liking it, you will falter in the assessment process for both of those communities. They will weed you out.
I advise that you look into a MOS with transferrable skills. I've seen several posters indicate that this isn't possible. In the Army, it's definitely possible. You could join in the Cyber (17 Series), Signal (25 Series), or Intelligence (35 Series) specialties and be extremely marketable upon finishing your service. All of those require a TS/SCI security clearance (with the exception of some signal specialties) and provide skills you likely won't find outside the military. Intel and Cyber Threat Analysts can make good money upon separation - that clearance is worth something. In the Signal Corps, there's a heavy emphasis on getting certifications (SEC+, NET+, CEH, CISSP), which carry significant value in IT/cybersecurity/computing fields on the outside. Should you want to have a bit of everything, you can try to enlist into a technical specialty on a Ranger Regiment contract (ie enlist to assess into the Regiment as an intel guy etc). That will get you some of that hardcore, special experience.
I heavily recommend that if you join, you come away with experience you can't easily obtain elsewhere. Intel Analysis, Cyber Network Defense, and a high level clearance. Don't join to do paperwork or be a mechanic, there are better ways to do that without being dumped on for 4yrs.
This message board has a pretty poor understanding of the military. Look no further than the guy who "has a buddy" (don't we all?) that was a jump and dive qualified fighter pilot. I'll provide a hint: we don't spend millions to train pilots to land expensive aircraft on ships, then make those guys ground pounders and pay them to jump out of planes. There's a short list of military careers where you might get both dive and jump wings, and pilot ain't one of them (unless you enlist first, do the jump/dive stuff, then go to OCS and become a pilot as an officer).
Source: A guy who is currently in, but getting out after the initial commitment.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Oh Please wrote:
If you're like most...going enlisted, no degree (therefore no "easy" path to commission), then I say it is not worth it.
I was in '93 to '97. There are so many variables, from MOS to duty station that can change your experience, and I was in missile electronics (27 series) and I was stationed in non-combat areas, yet it felt like a total waste of time. I was seriously disillusioned when I left and 25 years later, I'm still disillusioned.
For most part, military made up of poor people that had no choice, and their time in Army doesn't really change their lot in life either, except that you can get a VA loan. You have those that are looking to get out as soon as possible, and those looking for their 20. You'll find you look down on civilians and think you're alpha, but at end of the day, YOU are the sucker.
I do think going through one of the academies is a good deal if you can get in...I was not aware of how important it was until many years after I was out. In the real world, no one really cares if you were an E4 or even an E7.,..,but if you were a Major or something, it carries some heft in the business world.
I'm enlisted. Make over $70k. Never pay a health insurance premium. Have a pension waiting when I hit 20. Will have preference for some other overpaid gubment job when I get out.
Yea I'm the sucker. To each their own tho!
Alan
And I make 150k with pension, 401k, 6 weeks vacation, bonus in the 10k a year range, etc. Also, you're in now, not 28 years ago when I went to basic.
150k a year AND 10k a year in bonuses?
Maybe the economy is improving after all and there are jobs and hope if you want it badly enough and are willing to bust a nut for it.
Interesting post, with two decidedly different outlooks. There are those who have not served and have opinions based on what they see on television, a bad movie, or other media. Then there are those who have served...full disclosure - I am a 25 year Marine Helicopter Pilot, now retired, who served during the Civil War in Liberia and Desert Shield and Desert Storm. I was asked to do things that I didn't know I could do until I tried, and reveled in it. Received the best training that was available, with the best gear that was available. Is the Military for everyone? Absolutely not. If you are not called to serve, putting Service before self, the you may want to look at other things. I enjoyed my time - it was hard as hell at times, and I often wondered why we did things they way we did them. I made lifelong friends, both enlisted and commissioned. No regrets. If I can leave you with one piece of advice - do it because you want to, not because it's the only thing left to do.
United States Marine Corps nuff said!
post-military success wrote:
Besides that, I learned that every day that no one is actively trying to kill you is a pretty darned good day.
that is the entire total of what I got out of two years in the Army (conscripted)..
Work in IT now, when there is a 'crisis' I ask myself, is anyone bleeding out ? any corpses ? incoming ?
Well then it's not a crisis, stay calm..
it was a waste of two years otherwise. I wouldn't do it..
"certainty of death. small chance of success. what are we waiting for ?"
- Gimli
To find out about how serving in the Army builds character, ask Mitt Romney, Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, W Bush, Rush Limbaugh, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Bill O'Reilly, Ted Nugent, Dick Cheney.
RJC2010 wrote:
Interesting post, with two decidedly different outlooks. There are those who have not served and have opinions based on what they see on television, a bad movie, or other media. Then there are those who have served...full disclosure - I am a 25 year Marine Helicopter Pilot, now retired, who served during the Civil War in Liberia and Desert Shield and Desert Storm. I was asked to do things that I didn't know I could do until I tried, and reveled in it. Received the best training that was available, with the best gear that was available. Is the Military for everyone? Absolutely not. If you are not called to serve, putting Service before self, the you may want to look at other things. I enjoyed my time - it was hard as hell at times, and I often wondered why we did things they way we did them. I made lifelong friends, both enlisted and commissioned. No regrets. If I can leave you with one piece of advice - do it because you want to, not because it's the only thing left to do.
Great reply!
Deploying to a war that prob should have never happened that turned into a quagmire still F*cks with me.
Yes, but man up and become a Marine.
on.my.own wrote:
Feel like signing up as riflemen just for the experience and discipline, but its a long commitment which i cant get out of if i dont like it...
Yes, it's an experience that binds you to others, and could be a very successful career, benefits for life, and nearly no risk unless you choose that profession that puts you on the battlefield.
I put in 4 years to being a head track coach, made next to nothing, and won't put it on a resume because business people don't think you are serious professional.
The military gives you an income, a place to live, training, education, and benefits for life. And if you are in long enough, a government pension (which is gold).
My friend's kid enlisted in the Air Force right out of high school. He was a bright kid but not sure just what he wanted to do. In the Air Force he was doing something with avionics. He also studied online and got an AA degree in something related to avionics. When his enlistment was done he went to college using the GI Bill. He was able to finish his BS degree in engineering in about two years thanks to the Air Force paying for his AA degree. GI Bill paid the rest but if he had to do a full four years he would have been a little short on cash. Contrary to popular belief you can't do a whole 4 year degree on the government's dime. Anyway, he's been out for about four years now and making very good money with a big airplane manufacturer. Did the Air Force use him? Yes, but I think he really benefitted more from his service than they did.
As long as you come out alive then the answer is probably yes. The most important thing to remember, if you join, is that you just wrote the govt a blank check that they can cash with your life. That commitment isn't for everyone.
been there, done that, got the t shirt wrote:
on.my.own wrote:
Feel like signing up as riflemen just for the experience and discipline, but its a long commitment which i cant get out of if i dont like it...
From an officer's perspective - I'll tell you what I tell anyone who wants to join.
I would not enlist as a generic rifleman. Those soldiers truly emerge with no transferrable skills. Yes, there's discipline involved, but the "experience" is not what you would have gotten in the heyday of the GWOT. You'll train, and you likely won't deploy, and if you do deploy, you probably won't see combat. If you want that type of experience (combat), enlist into the Ranger Regiment or Special Forces. But, if you're already worried about not liking it, you will falter in the assessment process for both of those communities. They will weed you out.
I advise that you look into a MOS with transferrable skills. I've seen several posters indicate that this isn't possible. In the Army, it's definitely possible. You could join in the Cyber (17 Series), Signal (25 Series), or Intelligence (35 Series) specialties and be extremely marketable upon finishing your service. All of those require a TS/SCI security clearance (with the exception of some signal specialties) and provide skills you likely won't find outside the military. Intel and Cyber Threat Analysts can make good money upon separation - that clearance is worth something. In the Signal Corps, there's a heavy emphasis on getting certifications (SEC+, NET+, CEH, CISSP), which carry significant value in IT/cybersecurity/computing fields on the outside. Should you want to have a bit of everything, you can try to enlist into a technical specialty on a Ranger Regiment contract (ie enlist to assess into the Regiment as an intel guy etc). That will get you some of that hardcore, special experience.
I heavily recommend that if you join, you come away with experience you can't easily obtain elsewhere. Intel Analysis, Cyber Network Defense, and a high level clearance. Don't join to do paperwork or be a mechanic, there are better ways to do that without being dumped on for 4yrs.
This message board has a pretty poor understanding of the military. Look no further than the guy who "has a buddy" (don't we all?) that was a jump and dive qualified fighter pilot. I'll provide a hint: we don't spend millions to train pilots to land expensive aircraft on ships, then make those guys ground pounders and pay them to jump out of planes. There's a short list of military careers where you might get both dive and jump wings, and pilot ain't one of them (unless you enlist first, do the jump/dive stuff, then go to OCS and become a pilot as an officer).
Source: A guy who is currently in, but getting out after the initial commitment.
I've worked for the 'government' in 'cyber' twice since it was a thing, and the value of the roles, along with the clearance I have, is pretty pointless in the real world.
Unless I want to watch over missile silos in North Dakota in the winter, or live in New Jersey, and even then, the pay is nothing compared to the real world (as long as I don't say I have clearance).
Jessen jeffla wrote:
As long as you come out alive then the answer is probably yes. The most important thing to remember, if you join, is that you just wrote the govt a blank check that they can cash with your life. That commitment isn't for everyone.
Army Stats
World War 1 - 50,510 battle deaths; 4,057,101 served = 1 in 80 killed
World War 2 - 234,874 battle deaths; 11,260, 000 served = 1 in 48 killed
Korea - 27,731 battle deaths; 2,834,000 served = 1 in 102 killed
Vietnam - 30,963 battle deaths; 4,368,000 served = 1 in 141 killed
Persian Gulf War - 98 battle deaths; 782,000 served = 1 in 7980 killed
Don't have stats for Iraq/Afghanistan Wars
Don't worry about the whole "you're putting your life at risk" argument. Chances of getting killed are EXTREMELY low. I served in the infantry in Iraq and never even got wounded. It is probably more dangerous to walk the streets of Chicago today than the streets of Baghdad.
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Des Linden: "The entire sport" has changed since she first started running Boston.
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
Ryan Eiler, 3rd American man at Boston, almost out of nowhere
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion