Pete Julian Post-Race Interview: "It's Not the Shoes"

he is absolutely full of sh_t.

He sort of contradicted himself. He talked about the times not being an faster than they were 10 years ago. But then he later says that times are fast today than ever.

+100

rnr wrote:

The answer is Simple- if you do not think it is the shoes, stop racing in them. I bet no one will dare not race in them.

I knew I could count on this kind of silliness here. The angry little lemmings on here follow the lead clown so well.

It's time to do a running research/study on the "super shoes." Or have there already been one? If so where is the write up.

NY Times already did what is outside of LRC's grasp:

Nike’s Fastest Shoes May Give Runners an Even Bigger Advantage Than We Thought

https://nyti.ms/2YTR57z

Julien gives the best possible answer here.

Yes product innovation is helping - but probably in less dramatic ways than is the perception (especially in the case of track). Pete Julien quite rightly wants and needs to give his athletes the majority of the credit for lifting their games - which they have.

The shoes may help by a second over 10000? What a joke. There hasn't been a massive shift in training methodology over the last 30 years. Americans have gotten better but only because they regressed sharply after putting all their chips in intensity over volume. The shoes help a lot especially on the roads. The track shoes have not been studied enough and this is the first commercially available iteration. The difference between the 4% and Next% was drastic in both performance, feel, and comfort. And those were wayyy better than traditional flats. In 5 years these current spikes will likely get blown away by the new stuff. The athletes put in a tremendous amount of work, the coaches at the top level are by and large great coaches but if you turn around and make Kipchoge wear what Rod Dixon wore in 1982 he would not be likely to break 2:06 on a flat course. Yes some athletes today are more talented than those of the past but they aren't this much better. Ben True said it best already, the times today don't matter as much as they did 5 years ago. This shift is just as big as when they went away from cinder. I'm not bemoaning it actually. Like other posters mentioned the shoes allow athletes to recover better and run faster workouts more often since you can spike up without destroying your body. Sport progresses. Just stop comparing times as they aren't relevant any longer and this is just the beginning. Get used to it.

Apologies if this is satire wrote:

tuccone wrote:

It’s either the shoes or they are all hardcore dopers. Pete isn’t that good of a coach.

So it's cool and amazing and unquestionable when Ugandans or Ethiopians or Kenyans approach or run under the WR, but US runners running faster than they used to must be suspect and we don't have the kind of coaching to do that with AlSal on suspension.

I feel like this statement is about 180 degrees off of how people typically judge performances

rnr wrote:

The answer is Simple- if you do not think it is the shoes, stop racing in them. I bet no one will dare not race in them.

This exactly what I don't understand about the "supershoe" controversy. By making this statement, it's like you're saying no one has ever considered a specific shoe for racing before these came out. EVERYONE in the past, since shoes started to become very specific, picked out specific shoes for the sole reason of trying to be faster in them during a race than in training. If you;'re really saying that these shoes are just so much better than any other racing shoe in history, then say that. But don't say that no one ever cared about a shoe just for racing before these came out.

rnr wrote:

The answer is Simple- if you do not think it is the shoes, stop racing in them. I bet no one will dare not race in them.

but everyone is racing in them. i think ben true's take is one of the better ones i have heard. wearing them for harder sessions or in races allows for better recovery. as we know consistency and stringing together quality work is one of the most important factors for results...so the shoes are definitely beneficial, but there are a multitude of factors that are playing a part here and to discredit times and even wins is dumb. its not like doping where its done in secrecy and only a % of the athletes lining up are on PEDs. we know what shoes people are wearing and everyone has access to them.

To clarify a point not specifically elaborated upon by Pete or his interviewer, his "it's not the shoes" comment was a specific reference to the new track spikes, not the road flats.

Conversely, Ben True's podcast comment regarding "times don't matter anymore" was a specific reference to the "magic shoe" road flats, not the new track spikes.

Pete stated the new track spikes "are great, I get it" but then referenced Solinsky's sub-27 w/multiple sub-27:20s race as an example of US runners performing just as fast with older shoe technology.

Pete clearly believes the new super spikes help a little. However, he believes it's how today's athletes are training /living better & smarter that are far more important factors.

On the other hand, Nick Willis is convinced the new spikes are so good they cut 1 sec/600m off your time, while Mason Ferlic attributed 10 seconds of his 13:25 TX Qualifier win to the new spikes.

All differing opinions, all subjective.

Major funding coming to your local biomechanics lab soon.

This is a good post. The nuances can get lost with soundbites. There is a sense that athletes may feel they they are not receiving enough credit for their performances if people just say it’s the shoes. But of course the shoes are helping very fit humans run very fast times. Those humans typically do not get fit magically. They work harder than the average human can tolerate.

Coureur des bois wrote:

It's time to do a running research/study on the "super shoes." Or have there already been one? If so where is the write up.

Here you go:

te5n1k wrote:

rnr wrote:

The answer is Simple- if you do not think it is the shoes, stop racing in them. I bet no one will dare not race in them.

but everyone is racing in them. i think ben true's take is one of the better ones i have heard. wearing them for harder sessions or in races allows for better recovery. as we know consistency and stringing together quality work is one of the most important factors for results...so the shoes are definitely beneficial, but there are a multitude of factors that are playing a part here and to discredit times and even wins is dumb. its not like doping where its done in secrecy and only a % of the athletes lining up are on PEDs. we know what shoes people are wearing and everyone has access to them.

This is not a genuine post at all. Not every company has super spikes. The guidelines were unclear until recently about road and track shoes which were skirted by longtime Nike employee Seb Coe when they used a mens 8.5 shoe measurement to set guidelines when mens size 9 was used for years. Had they taken a size 9 shoe the Nike would have not qualified under the 40mm stack height restriction. No one is discrediting wins, only times. The technology now far eclipses any tech in shoes ever made in the last 60 years. Kieran Tuntivate is now faster than Alberto Salazar ever was when he is barely out of college. A legendary american runner has been eclipsed overnight by a guy that ran 13:57 in normal spikes (far superior already to old spikes) as his best not too long ago after joining a nike funded program. We all know that man ran himself into the ground along with his peers in garbage shoes. If all of a sudden it was mandatory to wear shoes of that era the sport would not even exist because of how beneficial todays footwear is. Hearing athletes say that shoes they race in now is insignificant is a bigger slap in the face than when they stan a traditional flat 10 years ago. Everyone knows a mondo track is faster than cinder and to say current footwear isn't a major factor now is pathetic of these pro athletes. Own up to it.

You don’t think Kieran’s full effort in college was a 13:57, do you?

He spent months working his tail off with the deepest training group in the US. Compare that to Harvard’s track team and I think you can draw the conclusions.

No one is saying the spikes don’t help. Those who know anything about physics and biomechanics recognize that the spikes help. THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SPIKES. The question is to what extent. If you really think the new dragonfly’s are 3-4 seconds faster than the Mambas or victory elites I don’t know what to say. Go buy a pair and race in them.

opposite day wrote:

Apologies if this is satire wrote:

So it's cool and amazing and unquestionable when Ugandans or Ethiopians or Kenyans approach or run under the WR, but US runners running faster than they used to must be suspect and we don't have the kind of coaching to do that with AlSal on suspension.

I feel like this statement is about 180 degrees off of how people typically judge performances

Except that's the predominant view expressed by the LRC braintrust.

They don't destroy the calf and the achilles because they are doing the work for them! That's the point. That is not a more important factor; that is THE factor.

Had never heard an interview with him before. He’s quirkier than I realized