Engels calls 3:29 the "clean American record," endorses Dragonflies after 5k win

How could the interviewer not ask a follow up question after he said that?

haha was just about to post about this. Interesting comment but I guess a number of people have always been suspicious of Lagat since that '03 EPO flag. Just interesting to see one pro commenting openly on it[him]. Makes you wonder what other records elite athletes do/don't believe in.

The American record was recently adjusted to 3:27 by Bernard Lagat.. Prior to that the record was 3:29, also by Lagat. Both performances are by the same person. Wouldn’t they both be dirty? Isn’t 3:30 “the clean AR” by Craig’s definition?

hdjsosjsjsh wrote:

The American record was recently adjusted to 3:27 by Bernard Lagat.. Prior to that the record was 3:29, also by Lagat. Both performances are by the same person. Wouldn’t they both be dirty? Isn’t 3:30 “the clean AR” by Craig’s definition?

Wasn't Sydney Maree's 3:29.77 the previous record before Lagat?

hdjsosjsjsh wrote:

The American record was recently adjusted to 3:27 by Bernard Lagat.. Prior to that the record was 3:29, also by Lagat. Both performances are by the same person. Wouldn’t they both be dirty? Isn’t 3:30 “the clean AR” by Craig’s definition?

Which is what he implied "so I can run 3:29 and get the clean American Record"

If Bernie wasn't 45-46 years old, I'd say "shots fired," but it's really less of a story.

There was no follow up, because it was quick, it took me a second to process as I was listening.

Craig's take on spikes was spot on. I especially liked the comment that "spikes in general help."

Mondo, pacers, better nutrition, etc... ALL help.

Think about Jim Ryun's 351 on cinders with crappy footwear....what that proves is that TIMES DO STILL MATTER. Miling performance is reaching the top of the curve. Shoes aren't going to bring the WR down to 339 for the mile or 322 for the 1500.

He's also right that everyone's just butthurt because Nike is ahead of the curve.

I found the interview refreshing and honest and the 1500 record thing was such a small part of it. I doubt Engels has any ill will towards Lagat but the sordid and confusing circumstances (doping flag and citizenship) of the American 1500 NR is likely a frustration for most American milers. For those that don’t know, Lagat’s American NR came on Aug 4, 2004. He competed for Kenya in the Olympics two weeks later. And there was also the positive A EPO sample. Combine that with the era and you’ve got one big asterisks on that record so you can see why for those to whom it matters think 3:29 is the legit record.

The video interview was refreshing nevertheless and my takeaway wasn’t the record thing at all.

He said the new spikes were the best thing ever but when asked, he said he would probably go back to the old vics for the 800/1500.

What a bum. F Craig.

The guy is handsome and charismatic - I wonder if he could go into pictures after his running career? ?

2 takes.

He might not even know Lagat has the record. I’ve seen a few times where pros have no idea about the history of the sport.

He jokes a lot. To even post about this shows how you have undescended testes. He’s human and allowed to have an opinion. Even if it’s in jest. Even if that hyperbolic statement is in agreement with most of the posters here.

I don't think it's too surprising that he endorsed his sponsor's newest spikes, he said they were great and HS/Collegiate runners should be using them, but he said spikes helped in general, so I don't think he believes they help by seconds per lap. That's just conjecture though.

Saying he wanted to run 3:30 or 3:29 and break the clean record caught me off guard too, but it's probably helpful for him to think the legitimate AR is 3:29/3:30 because of Lagat's positive sample and the fact he ran for Kenya right after his 3:27. Shooting for 3:29 and telling yourself that's the real record probably makes it easier to stay motivated than needing to run 3:27.

The biggest thing for me though, was that he thinks he'll be able to run 3:30 or faster by this summer. That's a huge jump from 3:34, so I'm excited to see what he does this summer!

I like Craig, but didn't he just talk about wanting to go after the Olympic standard (on a recent pod?) in the 5k so he could have 3 Q marks, and Donovan doing the same w/ 4/8/15? In this interview he talks about his goal being to break 14.

I actually find this quite rich coming from a guy whose coach recently got suspended for doping.

(Yes, yes I know Pete Julian was Engels' main coach; you get my point)

World Athletics calls Lagats 3.29.30 the US #1 if you check their all-time Rankings.

Otherwise, why wouldn't Lagats 3.26 be the record?

If you discount Lagat’s times, which may have some legitimacy to it, then the American record would be the 3:29.77 run by Sydney Maree, but, either way it’s 3:29.xx. Now, Sydney was South African by birth, and that’s the country to which he returned. So, if Engels is thinking of the American-born record, wouldn’t that be Webb’s 3:30? So, breaking 3:30 is the legitimate record?

But, all of this is ridiculous banter and speculation. You can’t imply Lagat’s record is illegitimate because of a doping flag, while also say that people are merely “butthurt” by Nike’s racing shoes. Most companies are producing replicas now, and they are helping athletes run much faster, akin to taking drugs. They are not “just spikes.” So, if Engels runs 3:29, isn’t he more like a 3:32 guy? I think Nick Willis would think so. I think anyone fair minded would agree. It’s painfully obvious.

3.29.30 wrote:

World Athletics calls Lagats 3.29.30 the US #1 if you check their all-time Rankings.

Otherwise, why wouldn't Lagats 3.26 be the record?

Because he ran 3:27 while a US citizen before switching competing allegiance. He never ran 3:26 as an American.

Anyway, pretty rich for a guy who was butthurt over Simpson talking about the NOP being under investigation.

My problem with the 3:27 is that he was still competing for Kenya. He hid his U.S. citizenship so the he could run for Kenya. The 3:27 in 2004 was the same year he won Olympic Silver for Kenya. It seems odd to me that he could win a medal for one country and set the national record for another in the same season, weeks apart. Potentially, he could have done it in the same race (in reality, he didn’t, just a hypothetical).

It's funny that whenever I've mentioned the obvious fact that Lagat was probably EPO'd out of his mind when he ran 3:27, I always got an army of American fans here screaming British teeth at me.

I guess now that there are some Anerican born milers who might run under 3:30 soon then you are happy to suddenly accept that Lagat doesn't hold the clean American record after all.