I've been looking at letsrun posts religiously since late last year but I haven't yet managed to make a breakthrough
My PRs are:
18.05, 4.8k XC (2019)
61s, 400m (after 10x400m- 2019)
4.33min, 1500m (2020)
2.53min, 1k (2020)
18.34min, 5k (2021)
I've been looking at letsrun posts religiously since late last year but I haven't yet managed to make a breakthrough
My PRs are:
18.05, 4.8k XC (2019)
61s, 400m (after 10x400m- 2019)
4.33min, 1500m (2020)
2.53min, 1k (2020)
18.34min, 5k (2021)
More mileage and VO2 max workouts (think 5-6x1k or something like that), you seem to be stronger on the shorter distances.
Underachieving 20 yrold wrote:
I've been looking at letsrun posts religiously since late last year but I haven't yet managed to make a breakthrough
My PRs are:
18.05, 4.8k XC (2019)
61s, 400m (after 10x400m- 2019)
4.33min, 1500m (2020)
2.53min, 1k (2020)
18.34min, 5k (2021)
hmm.. I was under 17 at your age.
You have ok PR's for 1500 and 1k but you should aim to get them about 10 seconds faster.
Try and get your quarter under 60 seconds, sounds like it is within your abilities.
Just consistency is what you need. If you run 10 miles/day, even 6 days a week and take 1 day off to rest each week (or even do a short 2-4 mile recovery run, very slow at your discretion) for at least 2-3 months, that could give you the foundation you need to go under 17.
A 5k is almost entirely aerobic. When you do distance runs, you slowly build capillaries in your muscles and over time your body is able to draw more oxygen from them
Perhaps today you do your 5k in 18 min, you are gasping for air, out of breath.
2-3 months down the road you might feel quite differently if you've been teaching your body to run for a good 60-70 minutes each day. Your body will respond to the stimuli you give it.
It won't happen magically overnight, or even in a week or two.
Put in the miles, time trial or race after 4 weeks and again perhaps after 8 weeks and then at 12 weeks.
You can get under 17 for sure, you need a stronger foundation of aerobic running.
Week 7:
Mon (rest day): 3km/20min very easy/rest (AM),core (PM)
Tues: 10km moderate (AM)
Wed: 2x2km tempo (AM), 73mins easy (PM)
Thurs: 85mins LR (AM), core (PM)
Fri: 72mins easy (AM) 200mx40 speed (PM)
Sat: 72mins easy (AM) core (PM)
Sun: easy 56mins, 36 mins(AM) hurdles+short speed (PM)
Week 8 (down week):
Mon: Ball (AM)
Tues: 66mins easy (AM) 45mins easy (PM)
Wednesday:50mins easy (AM) 7x1k tempo (PM)
Thursday: 84mins easy (AM) 29mins easy hills (AM)
Friday: Missed easy- lack of sleep, shin splint (AM) 400mx13 (PM)
Saturday: 65min easy (AM) 45mins easy (PM)
Sunday: 33mins easy (AM), 22 mins easy (AM) Form work, 50m sprints (PM)
Week 9:
Mon: Core (AM)
Tues: 65min easy (AM) 48min easy (PM)
Wed: Core (AM) 55min very easy(PM)
Thursday: 45min easy (AM) 60min easy (PM) 30min moderate swim (PM)
Friday: 3.2km tempo (AM), 50min easy
Sat: 77min (AM), Missed easy-(ball of foot pain)
Sun: 80min (AM) 300mx3 speed (PM)
Week 10:
Mon: 93min moderate (AM), 20min easy swim (AM), 20min easy (PM)
Tues: 60min easy (AM)
Wed: 65min easy (AM), 45min moderate-easy (PM)
Thursday: 48min easy (AM), 65min (PM)
Fri: 60min easy (AM) 60min (PM)
Sat: 45min sand easy (AM)
Sun: 40min swim easy (AM), 50min (AM) 1k all out (PM)
Week 11:
Mon: 60min easy (AM)
Tues: 55min easy (AM) 60min easy (PM)
Wed: 12x1k, 4.10min-3.45min-3.55min (AM), 53min easy (PM)
Thurs: 50min easy (AM), 60min easy (PM)
Fri: 400x15, 80s (AM), 53min easy (PM)
Sat: 55min easy (AM), 55min easy (PM)
Sun: 56min easy (AM), 2x300+300,200 (PM)
Week 12:
Mon (rest day): Light core
Tues: 63min easy-moderate (AM), Gym (AM), 45min-moderate (PM)
Wed: 55min easy (AM), 65min moderate (PM)
Thurs: 3x2k (AM), 66 min easy (PM)
Fri: 82min tempo(AM), 19min interval (AM), 24min easy (PM) 10+km walk (PM)
Sat: 65min easy (AM), 70min hard(PM)
Sun: 2x800m (PM) (missed last set- dehydrated)
Week 13 (down week):
Mon: Gym (AM), 60min easy(PM)
Tues: 60min easy (AM)
Wed: 45min (AM), Running form work (PM)
Thurs: 55min, 5min+strides (AM) 55min (PM)
Fri: 75min (AM), 35min (PM)
Sat: 75min (PM)
Sun: 50min (AM), (3)800mx2
Week 14:
Mon: 65min (AM)
Tues: 85min ish (AM), 45min swim (PM)
Wed: 55min (AM), Gym (AM), 65min (PM)
Thurs: 53min (AM), 65min (PM)+strides
Fri: 15min warmup (PM), 51min fartlek (PM),
Sat: 75min (AM), 50min (PM)
Sun: 57min (AM), 47min (PM)
Week 15:
Mon: Core (AM) 15min jog+ 5x strides (AM), 60min (PM)
Tues: 60min (AM), 10min+ 5xstrides (AM) 57min (PM)
Wed: 50min (AM), 400mx14, 77-81s (PM)
Thurs: 76min (AM), 60min (PM)
Fri: 1.2km jog, 12min jog, 1600km,2kmx2 6.40ish(PM)
Sat: 78min (AM), 47min (PM)
Sun: 50min (AM), (3)300, 3 sets, 49-51s (PM)
Week 16:
Mon: 50min (PM)
Tues: 68min (AM), 10min+ 6x strides(AM),45min (PM)
Wed: 400x10, 78s (PM), 21min (PM)
Thurs: 75min (AM), 45min (PM)
Fri: 50min (AM), 12min (AM), Core (AM), 3x1k 3.06-3.15min, 1x900m 2.54min
Sat: 75min (AM), 60min (PM)
Sun: 50min (AM), Missed 5k tempo-feet, shin pain (PM)
Week 17:
Mon: Rest
Tues: 55min (AM), 60min (PM)
Wed: 50min (AM) 1kx4, 3.16, 3.08, 3.08, 3.15, (5-5.10min rest)
Thursday: 60min (AM) Missed-slept (PM)
Friday: 60min (early AM), 50min (AM), 12x400 at 76-78s
Sat: 60min (AM), 60min (PM)
Sun: 50min (AM), 3x3x300m 45-51s
Week 18 (Crashed):
Mon: Core (AM), 60min (PM)
Tues: Rest
Wed: 2x2k 6.30+ to 6.40+ (PM)
Thursday: 60min (AM), 60min (PM)
Fri: 52min (AM), 8x1k, 3.45-4.10min
Sat: 20min (AM), 60min (PM) Nothing (PM)
Sun: 50min (AM), 400x15, 70-73s (PM)
Week 19
Mon: 1hr 40min (PM)
Tues: 40min (PM)
Wed: 50min (AM), 2x2km (6.50-7.30min/km)
Thurs: 1hr 5min(AM), 1hr 15min
Fri: 1hr 15min (AM), 1hr (PM)
Sat: 1hr (AM) 1hr 5min (PM)
Sun: 50min (AM) 41min (PM) 3x3x300m missed- back injury (PM)
Week 20
Mon: (Rest)
Tues: 1hr (PM)
Wed: (2x1k-1min rest, 3.14, 3.08), 50min (PM)
Thurs: 50min (AM), 1hr 15min (PM)
Fri: 2.4k, 7.56min, 35min (AM), 1hr 20min (PM)
Sat: 1hr 5min (AM), 1hr 15min (PM)
Sun: 50min (AM), 2.8km tempo (PM, missed 3.2x2, 90s/400- back injury)
Week 21 (Race/taper):
Mon: Rest- back injury
Tues: Rest
Wed: 45min (PM)
Thurs: Rest
Fri: 30min (AM), 5k at 18.33 (PM)
Sat: 75min (AM)
Sun:
Thank you!!
Will keep in mind, tq!
I see a few problems.
1) Your doubles are too long. It looks like you’re running too much on your easy days and they’re turning into moderate days, so you’re not recovering properly. You’re running a ridiculous amount of mileage for an 18 minute 5k runner, especially at your age. I’d back off on the mileage or at least limit your doubles to 30 minutes and only 2-3x/week instead of the 50-60+ minute doubles on most days that you’ve been doing.
2) Too many workouts per week. You’re doing a lot of Vo2max or faster work, 3x/week. That will help you for a period of time but then you’ll start to dig yourself into a hole of fatigue, especially with your ridiculous mileage getting in the way of you recovering. Stick to 2x/week and make sure to run a tempo or threshold work at least once a week (or twice). For you, this will be around 6:23-6:30/mile for threshold (could be 4-5 x 5 minutes w/ 1-2 min rest) and 6:50-7:00/mile for longer tempos (30-40 minutes straight through or broken up into 5, 10, or 20 minute intervals). To maintain Vo2max work you really only need it once every 2 weeks or so. The 2 x 2km workouts and the 12-14 x 400m fall into that category — they’re tough on the body so use them sparingly.
3) your taper looked too abrupt and you cut back the mileage too much. You would’ve been better off doing some shorter runs to maintain your endurance, but with the preceding weeks of hard training you had I don’t know that it would’ve done you much good in that timeframe anyways.
4) no consistency in core and gym work. I see no pattern here, so it seems like you’ve just added it in when you feel like it. You’ll benefit from a more structured approach. Some runners tend to neglect the strength work but it really can elevate your performance to new levels if you do it consistently and correctly.
As the other poster said, I looked at your training and it appears you are already doing a ton of running.
Do you handle it well? Your body doesn't break down? It's a bit unusual for someone to be training as much as you are with your current PR's.
You are training similar to how a pro might train, which in a way isn't such a bad thing, but you don't need to be so complex.
Keep it simple
I don't personally believe you need doubles at your stage.
1 hour- 1 hour 15 minutes running/day is plenty.
Try 45 minutes, 60 minutes, 45 minutes, 75 minutes, 30 minutes tempo (faster, but not all out), 60 minutes and an off day as a weekly schedule.
Assuming you do all of these around 7:30 pace, give or take with the exception being the 30 minute run where you go a bit faster, this would put you around 42 miles/week.
That's not a ton of milage but I don't think you need to be running more than that.
Volume (amount of time running per day) is what counts, along with effort. The distance you cover is not that important in the grand scheme of things.
You really are training a great deal and it doesn't seem like it's necessary to train that much, in my view.
Thanks man, I will adjust my training plan. But, the only thing I can't adjust is the 3x workouts a week, because I run under a coach with the team so i would be rebelling against him if I do skip Sunday trainings :/
I ran a race indicator workout, 3.20kx5 with 1min rest last year feb, so im not sure if I can count that as a 17.30 PR because covid hit and races were cancelled
Thanks again! My body doesn't typically break down too much, all the injuries listed were from other sports like badminton (back), basketball or if I don't stretch my legs while doing those mileages
There's at least several other good threads about breaking 17. I spent a lot of time trying to break that barrier myself and eventually did. I will say as a tip that I did a lot of my shorter intervals (like up to 800 or 1k) at 5:20 mile pace just to try to make dream race pace feel as comfortable* as possible. The whole time I really wanted to break 16:30
That seems a massive amount of work to run 18:00 min for 5k. I ran 17:02 when I was 46 years old on about 40 miles a week, and only one run a week at 60 min or more. Did do a lot of things like 5 or 6 times 1000m.
Also ran 17:32 at 53 (on the track) and 18:01 at 58 off about 40 miles a week.
I wouldn't be surprised that if you didn't just cut down mileage for a few weeks and do some faster work say 1500m and 5000m pace, you'd feel much fresher and take a huge chunk off your time.
MIght be worth running the odd 2 mile time trial at 18 min 5k pace too.
Are you running for a college team? If that’s the case, and you really just want to stay on the team, maybe tone down the intensity of 1-2 of those workouts and make them more of a threshold or 10k pace session so you don’t burn out. Your coach can’t control the pace you’re running at and I’m sure you’ll run races way better with those adjustments. You really can go from mid 18s to sub 16 in 1-2 years with mostly threshold and some short speed.
If it’s a club team, I’d say screw it. Just do better training on your own.
Underachieving 20 yrold wrote:
I've been looking at letsrun posts religiously since late last year but I haven't yet managed to make a breakthrough
My PRs are:
18.05, 4.8k XC (2019)
61s, 400m (after 10x400m- 2019)
4.33min, 1500m (2020)
2.53min, 1k (2020)
18.34min, 5k (2021)
Then you need a magic schedule like this:
M: 50-60 min easy at 7:45-7:50 pace
Tu: 12-20 x 400m at 79-80 sec , rec= wait easy walking back to 120 bpm
We: 50 min easy 7:45-7:50 pace ( or you can take another day off )
Th: 60 min easy 7:45-7:50 pace
Fr: LT interval to a total of 6-8 miles at 5:50 mile pace , rec= same as Tuesday.
Sa: 70-80 min easy at 7:45-7:50 mile pace
Su: Day off
If you follow this you are guaranteed to run sub 17 at 5 k within a year from now.
There is of course no magic, just looks to be! )) Good luck! :)
-The Magic Wizard -
Thank you for perspective! I will be cutting the mileage down
My school's coach is also my club's coach so...>_< I'm going to cut down the pace on sundays to 10k-threshold work, probably going to get scolded but it's worth it. If I do something like:
Mon; 60min, 30min
Tues: 30min, 60min
Wed: 30min, school's workout (PM)
Thurs: 60min , 30min
Fri: 30min, school's workout
Sat: 30min, 60min
Sun: 30min, 10k-threshold
And repeat this for two months till my goal nationals race, do you think its good?
Thanks mate, I'll have a try once my season is over because I don't have control over my workouts currently
For me, speed work of 15 X 800 meter at 2:20 to 2:30 helped me get under 18.
If it makes you feel better, my PR is 16:48.6 and I only have PRs of 2:20 800m and 4:48 1500m. So you have enough speed. Now you just endurance. What's your weekly mileage?