Today I did a 3 mile threshold with splits and avg HR of
5:46 175
5:42 182
5:22 186
My max HR is somewhere between 205 and 210.
Should I tone it down a bit? I feel runs at this pace definitely are missing the comfortable part of “comfortably hard”
Today I did a 3 mile threshold with splits and avg HR of
5:46 175
5:42 182
5:22 186
My max HR is somewhere between 205 and 210.
Should I tone it down a bit? I feel runs at this pace definitely are missing the comfortable part of “comfortably hard”
no i think you're fine
How much was the cardiac drift during the 16.5 minutes of activity? What was the maxHR of the session?
What's your current 5K fitness, roughly?
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
How much was the cardiac drift during the 16.5 minutes of activity? What was the maxHR of the session?
I believe I hit 193 by the end, as I hit the last 800 pretty hard.
The Dirty Duck wrote:
What's your current 5K fitness, roughly?
I’m not quite sure, but I’d imagine if ran on a track I could hit around 16:10 give or take a few seconds for a full 5k.
My 2 mile fitness is 9:45-9:50 if that’s a better indicator.
That is putting you to eventually above your Lactate Threshold. A reason I asked is because I'm learning LT reps, as being done by the pros, are evidently significantly below the old-school lactate threshold point of 4mmol at ~91-92% of HRmax.
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
That is putting you to eventually above your Lactate Threshold. A reason I asked is because I'm learning LT reps, as being done by the pros, are evidently significantly below the old-school lactate threshold point of 4mmol at ~91-92% of HRmax.
That is not to say it is unwise to run a tempo at a pace where the max heart rate drifts above the old-school 4mmol point (@91-92% HR max), but to consider it is going to have physiological effects, including effects on recovery, that would a tempo kept under that point would not.
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
That is putting you to eventually above your Lactate Threshold. A reason I asked is because I'm learning LT reps, as being done by the pros, are evidently significantly below the old-school lactate threshold point of 4mmol at ~91-92% of HRmax.
That is not to say it is unwise to run a tempo at a pace where the max heart rate drifts above the old-school 4mmol point (@91-92% HR max), but to consider it is going to have physiological effects, including effects on recovery, that would a tempo kept under that point would not.
That absolutely gave me my answer! What pressed me to asking this question was the fact at how tired my legs are now feeling considering that I also hit leg weights today.
Perhaps slowing down by 10 seconds a mile would have me tempoing more efficiently?
I've been at this, off-and-on-and-off-on for some forty years, and I'm still learning. The landscape (including the body changes). I think (hope) keeping things in perspective with greater understanding of heart rate training will up my game. YMMV.
I think it's typical to run a 3-mile tempo (as opposed to a longer one) a few ticks faster than comfortably hard, but it sounds to me like you would still be in a very productive tempo range running 5:50, 5:45, 5:30 -- or even a few seconds slower -- and you might benefit from the improved recovery.
We are similar fitness. Ran 15:45 on the track a few months ago. I run my LT workouts at 5:30ish pace, Aerobic Tempos at 5:40-5:50 pace and CV work at 5:10-5:20 pace. I would say your first 2 miles are a bit slow and your last mile is a bit fast if your goal is to get 3 miles of continuous LT work in but the average is alright. It always struck me as much more effective to try and run an even pace, this also usually flattens out the HR more and prevents you from ruining the workout by crossing into VO2 max territory (ok perhaps ruin is the wrong word).
Usually when I speed up that much over the course of an effort it is because I didn’t properly warm up so you may want to consider that.
Don’t run a 5:22 at the end. Otherwise you’re fine. If it feels too easy, run the whole thing in the 5:30s. But you should never kick a threshold workout in like that.
highhoppingworm wrote:
We are similar fitness. Ran 15:45 on the track a few months ago. I run my LT workouts at 5:30ish pace, Aerobic Tempos at 5:40-5:50 pace and CV work at 5:10-5:20 pace. I would say your first 2 miles are a bit slow and your last mile is a bit fast if your goal is to get 3 miles of continuous LT work in but the average is alright. It always struck me as much more effective to try and run an even pace, this also usually flattens out the HR more and prevents you from ruining the workout by crossing into VO2 max territory (ok perhaps ruin is the wrong word).
Usually when I speed up that much over the course of an effort it is because I didn’t properly warm up so you may want to consider that.
This is good to know! I believe I was properly warmed up, I just kicked harder than I should have over the last 800m. Seeing as I’m quite sore today, I’m going to give sticking in the mid to high 5:40s a shot next time around.
Thanks!
How are you measuring the heart rate? If it's wrist-based, those aren't very accurate and will sometimes just lock onto your cadence. But the perceived effort is usually a good indicator of LT, and it sounds like you know it was a bit hard.
Ho Hum wrote:
How are you measuring the heart rate? If it's wrist-based, those aren't very accurate and will sometimes just lock onto your cadence.
This is true, which is why I almost use a strap when training.
But the perceived effort is usually a good indicator of LT, and it sounds like you know it was a bit hard.
IMO, using 'perceived effort', i.e., old school Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE), in isolation, is running blind, so-to-speak, in light of the ubiquity today of affordable Heart Rate monitors. The mind and 'feelings' can be deceptive. The heart doesn't lie regarding one's condition on that day.
Edit: Meant to say, "...which is why I almost ALWAYS use a strap when training."
Yes
Start around 5:40 and no faster then 5:30
Remember it’s hour race pace but that’s if you’re tapered.
I would say your true threshold is 5:30 pace but since you’re not tapered closer to 5:40 is fine.
Basically I like to add 10 seconds per mile to all those pace calculators to insure it stays a tempo.
I think your last mile should have been 20 seconds slower but otherwise ok.
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
That is putting you to eventually above your Lactate Threshold. A reason I asked is because I'm learning LT reps, as being done by the pros, are evidently significantly below the old-school lactate threshold point of 4mmol at ~91-92% of HRmax.
Don't get hung up on the "old school lactate threshold of 4 mmol" thing because that marker is a little different for most. You can use heart rate but I don't do that too often either.
For my athletes I try to use what would be around a time they can run in an hour race, then I watch them. You can tell when they are racing. Basically it is a hard effort but in control.