Hi, I'm crowd-sourcing advice since I haven't been able to race in over a year. I've trained well, averaging 60 miles a week but I don't know where I am since I can't motivate myself to TT on my own. My PR from early last year is 77:46. Some recent workouts:
6x1 miles (60 second rest) - average 5:39
8x1km (2 minutes rest) - average 5:24
3x2 miles (3 minutes jog rest) - average 5:40
5 mile tempo - average 5:46
I do two workouts and a long run of 15 miles every week, long run is usually around 6:35 -6:40 pace. All my running is on undulating terrain, very little track work.
So does sub-75 seem possible within the next 2-3 months, if not, what do you think is a realistic goal? Are there any workouts I should add to my schedule?
Is a sub-75 HM possible for me?
Training Advice/Discussion
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Yes
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I think you're pretty close but could be just a touch off. 1:15's or 1:16-low/mid feels right. We're talking maybe fractions in terms of workout splits & just a little more volume but if everything feels in control you might be there.
I'd like to see 8 x 1 mile off of 1:00 in the 5:30s. 12 x 1km @ 3:20-3:25. 3 x 2 (2:00 rest) in the 5:30s. 5 mile tempo @ sub-1:15 pace versus just over. Long tempos (8-12 @ marathon pace) in control in the 5:50-6:00 range. Maybe 5:40s for 8 but 5:50-6 for 10-12.
All of this is to say it's definitely possible. Maybe not guaranteed but you're definitely in PB shape. -
I think it’s a great, if slightly optimistic target. You seem like are you are right there and still have 4-6 weeks of probably the most important training or your cycle. I could see you squeaking under if you really dial it in for that period.
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High hopes wrote:
Hi, I'm crowd-sourcing advice since I haven't been able to race in over a year. I've trained well, averaging 60 miles a week but I don't know where I am since I can't motivate myself to TT on my own. My PR from early last year is 77:46. Some recent workouts:
6x1 miles (60 second rest) - average 5:39
8x1km (2 minutes rest) - average 5:24
3x2 miles (3 minutes jog rest) - average 5:40
5 mile tempo - average 5:46
I do two workouts and a long run of 15 miles every week, long run is usually around 6:35 -6:40 pace. All my running is on undulating terrain, very little track work.
So does sub-75 seem possible within the next 2-3 months, if not, what do you think is a realistic goal? Are there any workouts I should add to my schedule?
I started out as a 75 minute guy a couple years ago and now hover in the 72 range.
From my experience
Your probably around 75/76 shape.
Your 5 mile tempo (I have found) tends to be around what your pace will be for the half marathon if your being honest in your effort.
Also I think your long run is a little quick. I would honestly increase the distance a little bit 16-19 and focus on feeling good at the end. So have like a 17 mile long run with an average of 6:50 but your first 13 is around 7:00-7:10 pace and your last 4 you progress down to 6:25/6:15 by the end.
From my experience the difference between 75 to 72 was my body being able to handle to distance.
When I ran 75 it felt like my legs had been hit with Hammers it wasn't so much the aerobic fitness that was holding me back. New super shoes will help but yeahh just my two cents. -
How do your workouts compare to workouts from a year ago when you ran 77:46?
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I hope you didn't run 77 in Vaporflys.
If not, just 'crowd source' some cash and get them. You'll be under 75 easy -
lmao yep exactly.
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Your training is similar to what I did before running 73 for the half.
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Thanks for the advice. It mostly confirms what I thought, I'm probably closer to 76-low than sub-75. Maybe in a few more weeks and with good weather.
NERunner53 wrote:
I think you're pretty close but could be just a touch off. 1:15's or 1:16-low/mid feels right. We're talking maybe fractions in terms of workout splits & just a little more volume but if everything feels in control you might be there.
I'd like to see 8 x 1 mile off of 1:00 in the 5:30s. 12 x 1km @ 3:20-3:25. 3 x 2 (2:00 rest) in the 5:30s. 5 mile tempo @ sub-1:15 pace versus just over. Long tempos (8-12 @ marathon pace) in control in the 5:50-6:00 range. Maybe 5:40s for 8 but 5:50-6 for 10-12.
All of this is to say it's definitely possible. Maybe not guaranteed but you're definitely in PB shape.
Thanks for the suggestions. Is 12x1km common for a HM plan? I could definitely do 10 reps at that pace but it seems like a big workout. 5 miles below 5:43 pace would be a tough workout, maybe doable on the right course. I ran 5:46 pace on a really bad undulating route. The long tempo at MP is right in my comfort zone as a very slow twitch rhythm runner. -
bambam wrote:
How do your workouts compare to workouts from a year ago when you ran 77:46?
They are a lot better now but I didn't do many of the same workouts to directly compare. I did a 4 mile tempo around this time last year at 5:55 pace and recently did 5 miles at 5:43 pace. The difference is last year I was training for a marathon so everything was directed at running the pace I needed for that, the HM was just a bonus. -
You are close. Keep the workout paces the same but increase the recovery to a float, eventually to M pace. When you can do that you are there.
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NERunner53 wrote:
I think you're pretty close but could be just a touch off. 1:15's or 1:16-low/mid feels right. We're talking maybe fractions in terms of workout splits & just a little more volume but if everything feels in control you might be there.
I'd like to see 8 x 1 mile off of 1:00 in the 5:30s. 12 x 1km @ 3:20-3:25. 3 x 2 (2:00 rest) in the 5:30s. 5 mile tempo @ sub-1:15 pace versus just over. Long tempos (8-12 @ marathon pace) in control in the 5:50-6:00 range. Maybe 5:40s for 8 but 5:50-6 for 10-12.
All of this is to say it's definitely possible. Maybe not guaranteed but you're definitely in PB shape.
I’m not going to say that this is bad advice, because if you nail these workouts then you’ll likely nail sub 75. However, they are big workouts for a HM and a huge step up from what you’re doing now, so I would err on the side of caution.
You’re there or thereabouts sub 75 IMO. If I was in your shape and doing your training, I would do as advised above, more miles. Increase your long runs, add in some volume during the week.
My favourite pre-half workout is 3*2 miles at race pace off 90 seconds. If you can nail this on tired legs in the middle of a big mileage week, you’re golden.
As always though, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Good luck. -
You can do it. Your workouts and long runs sound exactly like my training going into a half marathon I did right before covid hit. Ran sub 73:30
One workout per week and 60mpw like you. My tempos were mostly continuous and maybe a tad longer (35-40’ at my peak but none avg under 5:45) and I did some fartleks and track stuff at 5:20 pace a couple times. -
I'd suggest a faster pace, around 5:15 or a bit faster, with a bit longer rest (3-3:30) on the 1KM repeats. That'd be more similar to a Daniels Interval pace workout, inline with a 75min half.
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High hopes wrote:
Hi, I'm crowd-sourcing advice since I haven't been able to race in over a year. I've trained well, averaging 60 miles a week but I don't know where I am since I can't motivate myself to TT on my own. My PR from early last year is 77:46. Some recent workouts:
6x1 miles (60 second rest) - average 5:39
8x1km (2 minutes rest) - average 5:24
3x2 miles (3 minutes jog rest) - average 5:40
5 mile tempo - average 5:46
I do two workouts and a long run of 15 miles every week, long run is usually around 6:35 -6:40 pace. All my running is on undulating terrain, very little track work.
So does sub-75 seem possible within the next 2-3 months, if not, what do you think is a realistic goal? Are there any workouts I should add to my schedule?
With 2-3 months, 75 is possible.
Do 4x 2 miles and finally 5x 2 miles at HMP -
Thanks for the suggestions. Is 12x1km common for a HM plan? I could definitely do 10 reps at that pace but it seems like a big workout. 5 miles below 5:43 pace would be a tough workout, maybe doable on the right course. I ran 5:46 pace on a really bad undulating route. The long tempo at MP is right in my comfort zone as a very slow twitch rhythm runner.[/quote]
I ran what you're hoping to run off of the workouts that I shared a little over a year ago. I also don't have great speed and mostly train for the marathon. I like a lot of what the Hansons/NAZ Elite do. I like Pfitzinger's for structure but like to add in a little more quality. All of that is to say, I like getting into that 7-9 miles (12-15k) of threshold work range when I'm hitting the toughest workouts in a half marathon build. I agree with the person who said it might be a bit much and that 3 x 2 off of :90 is a good predictor if you know the reps are hard but comfortable. Every runner is different. The half marathon is a long way. I think 12 x 1km @ T off of 1:00 rest is a great HM workout. 10 x 1km is fine too, and might be right for your mileage, how new you are to the distance, or to keep yourself from pushing over the line & winding up injured. I think the workout paces are really close regardless. Keep it rolling for a few weeks, get yourself some good weather, and nail a PR.
Also maybe try some broken tempo type stuff to break up 5 @ HM pace.
Examples: 3 @ 5:40-5:45, 8-10 x 400 @ (true) 10k, 2-3 @ 5:40-5:45 pace; 3 @ 5:40-5:45 pace, 4 x 800m @ (true 10k), 2-3 @ 5:40-5:45 pace; 3 miles @ 5:40-5:45 pace, 2 @ 5:35-5:40, 1 @ 5:30 (short rests); in a continuous long run- 2-3 E, 3 @ 5:40-5:45, 6-8 E, 3 @ 5:40-5:45, 2-3 E; 2-3 E, 3 x (2 @ T, 2 E), 2-3 E; 2-3 E, 6 x (1 @ T, 1 E), 2-3 E
Hopefully that all makes sense. &, yes, I know these might look tough but you're only doing a few of them in a cycle, you're building up to them, and they're spread out with proper rest/easy days. Anyways, good luck. Keep doing what has been working. -
High hopes wrote:
Hi, I'm crowd-sourcing advice since I haven't been able to race in over a year. I've trained well, averaging 60 miles a week but I don't know where I am since I can't motivate myself to TT on my own. My PR from early last year is 77:46. Some recent workouts:
6x1 miles (60 second rest) - average 5:39
8x1km (2 minutes rest) - average 5:24
3x2 miles (3 minutes jog rest) - average 5:40
5 mile tempo - average 5:46
I do two workouts and a long run of 15 miles every week, long run is usually around 6:35 -6:40 pace. All my running is on undulating terrain, very little track work.
So does sub-75 seem possible within the next 2-3 months, if not, what do you think is a realistic goal? Are there any workouts I should add to my schedule?
Your long run of 15 miles is in what I call "no man`s land ". You just need and will improve better with around 7:30 pace. Then try to extend your workouts to be ;
7-8 x 1600m at 5:41 mile pace
12-15 x 1 k at 3:32 min
20 x 400m at 77-78 sec
4 x 2 miles at 5:41 mile pace
This will help you run your 1:15 half. Good luck! :) -
I'm in a similar situation. I have a half marathon in just over a month and am also looking to run sub 75.My workouts are 7xmile at 5:25 with 1 minute rest, 8x1k at 3:05 with 1:30 rest, and some cutdowns that hit on a lot of different paces. I usually do a 17 mile long run with 3x2 mile or a huge steady state in it. Does sub 75 seem like a realistic goal for me? Oh also all of my runs except for the long run are done at 8200 ft and I'm running canyonlands which is at 4k feet.
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I agree with your 5 mile tempo being your race pace if u are really doing tempo. Make your long run 16 to 18 but slow down the pace. Speedwork is good but do your Mile repeats about 5:25 to 5:30 pace 1km repeats 5:15 to 5:20 pace running faster pace make your 5:44 pace needed for sub 1:15 half feel easier. I ran a 53:55 for hilly 10 miles when i PRed be to run my 5:23 pace for 10 miles I ran speed 10 to 20 seconds faster per mile. Good luck
