How in the hell did Kieran Tuntivate, a guy with a 13:57 pb, just run 27:17?

gets it wrote:

I have a hard time believing the 2-3 seconds per 1500/mile.

You really telling me Gudaf Tseguy, who wasn't wearing new spikes, would have done a 3:50 indoor 1500 if she were in DFs? That's equalling the outdoor record by 2016 super sketchy Dibaba. Outdoors that would be like Tseguy running a 3:47. That if only she'd had Nike spikes she might have beaten Kipyegon and Hassan in Doha 2019??

Also worth pointing out that despite both Muir and Dibaba having DFs since beginning of 2019, neither of them have PB'd outdoors at 1500-5000 distances.

Also worth pointing out Timothy Cheruiyot hasn't PB'd in the 1500 despite having DF's since 2019.

The spikes are awesome - I've got a pair - but I don't think they're in the same ballpark as the road shoes (my road PBs have dropped, track ones haven't, though haven't got injured since I got them).

Tseguy would have run 3:50 if she had run a more even paced race, her pacing was awful. I agree with your point though, probably capable of 3:50 without Super spikes and I can’t see her running 3:47 with them. Probably other performance enhancers being used though.

Tugma wrote:

Why can't we just appreciate how fast people are running. Why does this community always have to undermine accomplishments. To quote the man himself, "HaVaRd OnLy MaDe NaTiOnAlS bEcAuSe Of ThE VaPoR FlY"

The Harvard men proved they earned their spot at NCAA XC with their 15th place team finish. The Harvard women came last in the team race (31st) after they won the Northeast Regional. Take what you will.

rojo wrote:

The Big Chungus wrote:

His collegiate/post collegiate training matches up close w the JS strength-based model. For those in the know, this was a long time coming

Yes, I mean I knew his college PBs weren't close to his talent level. Fro watching him at the Ivy league level, he clearly was a big talent, with big passion for the sport who enjoys competition and competes with joy

If my brother ran 28 flat, this guy ultimately running 27:30-40 wouldn't stun me but 27:17 off the bat is wild.

I started this thread totally positive but of course do have to go down the shoe route if I'm going to make sense of this logically. I just realized If the shoes are worth 1 second per 600 per Nick Willis, then that's 16.67 seconds for a 10k which would put us right at 27:35.

...

By that logic, Bekele would have run right at 26 flat for 10,000 with DragonFlys 15 years ago, right? Give him pace lights, are we looking at 25:50?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they help, but it would vary with every single athlete. Perhaps people with highly efficient motions benefit less? How could that ever be quantified?

9 out of 15 were from the last 10 track seasons. Continuing that trend would mean in the next 10 years 9 Americans will run faster than 27:16. The shoes may help a little bit, I personally don't think it's 1 second per 600 meters. I'd maybe say 1 second per mile.. But either way, these all-time lists are going to get obliterated no matter what. People are getting faster. There are more and more fast people as time goes on. Look at the number of high schoolers who break 4 in the mile. There were only like 14 ever, and well over half were in the past decade. Now it's every year, in a few more years there will probably be more than one each year, eventually there will be a sub 4 guy coming out of many different states each year.

steeplepeople wrote:

sandybeaver wrote:

Having followed Kieran since high school (same school but never overlapped) it is great to see his progression here. Between Kieran and Sam Parsons it’s great to finally see Delaware natives represent on this level. No disrespect to Marquis Dendy, but before these guys DE had basically nobody since Vicki Huber on the track make news.

Charter 2008 Represent!

For years I have personally watched him run so many insanely fast laps at Bellvue. Lap after lap pushing the pace with determination; sometimes paced by a bike. High humidity, crazy winds, it doesn't matter. The kid's dedication and work ethic is legendary. Not for nothing but I don't think I've ever seen him train with a music apparatus of any kind.

One of my favorite Kieran races from his High School days.

Does it matter? He ran a 2.01 marathon. Isn't that enough? It would be nice if he can run faster, but it probably won't happen.

I spoke to Tuntivate's college coach, Alex Gibby yesterday. You can get the inside scoop on all of this, how he joined BTC, etc at the 36:16 mark of this week's podcast.

Having broadcast many of Tuntivate's college racees, the first thing I asked Gibby was how fast would Tuntivate have run if last year hadn't been cancelled, 13:30? He said he thinks he would have run faster. Gibbby coached Ed Moran at William and Mary to a 13:25 and said Tuntivate was better than that.

When he told me that, I said, "But wait,isn't like low 13:20s what Ryan Hall ran? "Then Gibby reminded me of the 2005 NCAA outdoor 5000 (where Moran was 7th). The field was LOADED. Hall won in 13:22 and it was like 85 degrees out in Sacramento.

I asked Gibby about the shoes and he thinks 3-4 seconds per mile. He said 15-25 seconds in a 10k. Part of his logic is the Oregon milers should be 353-4 guys, not 3:50.

Listen here at 36:16.

I think the more revealing question is: How did Tuntivate, who ran 27:17 off just a few months' training with BTC, run so slow in college?

rojo wrote:

I asked Gibby about the shoes and he thinks 3-4 seconds per mile. He said 15-25 seconds in a 10k. Part of his logic is the Oregon milers should be 353-4 guys, not 3:50.

Listen here at 36:16.

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/02/ben-true-podcast-grant-holloway-indoor/

Finally someone talking some sense. One second per lap sounds correct. All of these times are fake, akin to being on Epo. However, the genie is out of the bottle, and I’m not sure how you put it back.

All the Asians ahead of Tuntivate for the 10k are actually Kenyans who switched allegiance to run for rich oil states when they were already professional athletes.

So technically you could say that Tuntivate is the Asian record holder.

Trampolining is fun wrote:

Finally someone talking some sense. One second per lap sounds correct. All of these times are fake, akin to being on Epo. However, the genie is out of the bottle, and I’m not sure how you put it back.

Really, what, do you want everyone to wear spotbilt spikes again and run on cinder tracks? Will that satisfy your need make things equal?

My goodness. Where was the outcry when Tartan tracks came around, when Adidas came out with the 1964 Tokyo sprint spike. When blocks were used instead of digging holes.

Come on buddy, give it up. Maybe, just maybe track and field can get out of the middle ages and create some interest again. Oh, but wait.....come the Olympics and everyone will be running 72 pace until the final 800 so we can find out who has the best sprint at the end of 6 miles.......

Give me a break. The only thing fake is you and being self righteousness. Admit it, you are jealous you can't run anywhere near that fast.

I wonder if it's the juice - or is that only an E African thing?

ex-runner wrote:

All the Asians ahead of Tuntivate for the 10k are actually Kenyans who switched allegiance to run for rich oil states when they were already professional athletes.

So technically you could say that Tuntivate is the Asian record holder.

Kieran’s Dad is Thai, Mom is American, but Kieran, I believe was born and raised in the USA so he’s much more American than Thai. No disrespect though but it’s the wrong idea to think that someone born and raised in Thailand could reach this type of athletic excellence in distance running it’s just not going to happen. Of course, who can blame him for choosing to represent Thailand because he would have little chance of representing the US in Olympics or world championships.

Cuz he's the Tuntivator. He totally Tuntivated.

His ability is Tuntivatious and we can expect more Tuntivations to come.

Okay, Kieran.

My goodness wrote:

Okay, Kieran.

rojo isn't the Tuntivator, neither am I.

Kieran is the Tuntivator.

the answer is EPO use,plus those shoes.Thats how hes done it.No doubt he'll run a sub 13 5k soon.

Ghost1 wrote:Kieran’s Dad is Thai, Mom is American, but Kieran, I believe was born and raised in the USA so he’s much more American than Thai. No disrespect though but it’s the wrong idea to think that someone born and raised in Thailand could reach this type of athletic excellence in distance running it’s just not going to happen. Of course, who can blame him for choosing to represent Thailand because he would have little chance of representing the US in Olympics or world championships.

Yes, he was born in the USA. He did spend a couple of years living in Thailand as a young child. Not sure if he can speak Thai or not but that's not really important. He will be representing Thailand in all track and field championships.

I'm curious. Why could someone born and raised in Thailand not be able to reach this type of athletic excellence?

The previous national record for Thailand was over 2:00 slower than Kierans time. He would have nobody to train with and clearly the Thai track infrastructure is not that great considering how weak the records are.