Hi all, I used to be a 400m specialist in high school but I've graduated and don't compete anymore (PR of 50.1). Only 20 years old. I don't train like I used to but I still run. In fact, my distance is a lot better than how it used to be. I finally broke 20 in the 5k in November.
In high school, my 800m PR was 2:13. Never really went higher than that due to what I run. 200m-600m.
200m PR of 23.9 // 300m PR of 36.9 // 600m PR of 1:27. As you can tell, not really a distance guy based off my 5k or 2 mile. (12:13 PR)
As of now, my 800 PR is 2:08, which was back in October of 2020 during a solo time trial. Took a little break to not burn myself out and now I'm getting back to it. My concern is that half of the threads on here I read talk about running high milage in order to break 2. Like 40-50 mi/wk. I broke 5 in the mile for the first time back in September only coming off of 20-25 miles a week. I honestly didn't have a solid training plan. Just did a bunch of tempos, fartleks, and threshold runs. I can't even imagine going past 30 mi/wk.
But I'm trying to break 2 by the end of the summer. I can probably crank out a 2:15 due to being a little out of shape. Does anyone have advice that really doesn't require running 40+ miles a week? (I'd say I'm more of a sprint-based 800m runner if that helps) I don't really have a coach to reach out to or anything. Thanks!
How can I break 2 in the 800m as a sprint-based runner?
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You could look up the Clyde Hart stuff. I know a lot of people seem to hate it but I think it's good.
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If you cracked 5 with a 50 second 400 you should be good knocking on the door to sun 2. But I suppose you aren’t necessarily in 50 flat shape anymore. If I were you I’d just build a nice base up to 30 miles per week with some strides once the mileage is comfortable, then start introducing some fast repeat 200’s with plenty of rest, then some VO2 max intervals, and then cut out the long run and do 800 specific workouts like 3x400 or 8x200 at pace until you are sub 2. I say “if I were you...” because I literally did exactly that last summer . I did what I listed, with the same goal as you, and I ended up with 50.5, 2:01, and 4:52. I could’ve easily gone well under two and honestly I think around 4:45 but I got sick and they were all time trials alone. That’s what my workouts showed at least. I’m not asserting that my general training method is the best (or even good), I just know that I liked it and I liked coming up with my own plan. So as you can see, I’m also a speed based runner, though maybe not as dramatic as you, (I maintain I could have gone much faster in that mile if it hadn’t been a TT. Never did a single tempo run, and my longest run was 7 miles, but most long runs were 5-6 miles. Easy pace was 8:30. Boy could I crush those intervals tho.
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23.9 ??
50.1
1:27 ??
Most 50 flat people are running mid to low 22s for 200 and 1:25 for 600m. -
Given your PRs, you seem to have naturally strong speed endurance. Here’s what I think would work best for you (although I am making some big assumptions about your physiology)
you DO NOT need high mileage. Some high caliber speed based 800m runners (we are talking sub 1:50 guys) run only 20-25 mpw. Assuming you have a rest day, that’s only 4 or so miles a day on average. Keep in mind that if you take the 20-25 mpw approach you will be comparatively garbage at anything over 800m.
Instead of tempo runs, do some CV type work. I’d do a warmup, and then 8-10x400m at about 70 second pace. Take only a minute or so for rest. It shouldn’t be all that taxing. Once your done with this I’d do a few 150s at about 600m effort with full recovery.
A workout I found has helped me a lot in the 400-800m is the speed endurance ladder. I typically do 100-200-300-400-300-200-100 with full rest. I personally (with about 51.5-1:58 speed) will split around 13-26.5-42-58-42-26.5-13 on this workout, so I’d imagine that’s about what you should shoot for. You should fully recover after each rep, which makes this workout take longer than you’d think. This workout is also deceivingly hard.
20-40 second hill sprints are quite beneficial for the 800m as well, as they IMO imitate the feeling of the last 200m of the race pretty well and promote a strong knee lift when fatigued.
Workouts like 8x200m and 4x400m at goal race pace with full recovery will get you in shape quick, but should probably only be done every other week to avoid burnout.
Do 2-3 of these workouts every week, along with lifting, core, and 4-6 mile easy-moderate runs on non workout days and I think sub 2 will be very doable for you. Good luck and keep us updated!!! -
I guess I’m just different lol. The only race I’d ever run was the 400 and I never trained for the other events. If my coaches trained me for those too I’d probably run those times. Idunno. Like you said, “most”
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Look up Justin Rinaldi. He coaches a group of elite 800m runners out of Australia and the dude knows his stuff. Low mileage, speed based 800m training.
He also posts just about every workout his group does on the fast8 track club Instagram story and Twitter.
Weekly program tends to be:
Monday: top end speed (30’s, 50’s etc)
Tuesday: tempo+vo2 max type stuff
Wed: easy or rest
Thurs: hills or pace work
Friday: easy or rest
Sat: aerobic support session (10k pace type stuff)
Sun: easy run
Has some great posts here on LRC as well. -
CopperRunner wrote:
Do 2-3 of these workouts every week, along with lifting, core, and 4-6 mile easy-moderate runs on non workout days and I think sub 2 will be very doable for you. Good luck and keep us updated!!!
That sounds really similar to the type of stuff I used to do in high school! Thanks for recommending it I'll definitely think about it.
If you're interested in staying updated I have a youtube channel where I'll release a documentary / video of me breaking 2. It's a pretty huge milestone for me, I wish I had done it when I broke 5. I have no videos up, but when I upload it you'll see
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsXBVHVg_VmQjo0IL4r56_w -
Pletan wrote:
Look up Justin Rinaldi. He coaches a group of elite 800m runners out of Australia and the dude knows his stuff. Low mileage, speed based 800m training.
He also posts just about every workout his group does on the fast8 track club Instagram story and Twitter.
Weekly program tends to be:
Monday: top end speed (30’s, 50’s etc)
Tuesday: tempo+vo2 max type stuff
Wed: easy or rest
Thurs: hills or pace work
Friday: easy or rest
Sat: aerobic support session (10k pace type stuff)
Sun: easy run
Has some great posts here on LRC as well.
Thanks! -
ienjoyracing wrote:
If you cracked 5 with a 50 second 400 you should be good knocking on the door to sun 2. But I suppose you aren’t necessarily in 50 flat shape anymore. If I were you I’d just build a nice base up to 30 miles per week with some strides once the mileage is comfortable, then start introducing some fast repeat 200’s with plenty of rest, then some VO2 max intervals, and then cut out the long run and do 800 specific workouts like 3x400 or 8x200 at pace until you are sub 2. I say “if I were you...” because I literally did exactly that last summer . I did what I listed, with the same goal as you, and I ended up with 50.5, 2:01, and 4:52. I could’ve easily gone well under two and honestly I think around 4:45 but I got sick and they were all time trials alone. That’s what my workouts showed at least. I’m not asserting that my general training method is the best (or even good), I just know that I liked it and I liked coming up with my own plan. So as you can see, I’m also a speed based runner, though maybe not as dramatic as you, (I maintain I could have gone much faster in that mile if it hadn’t been a TT. Never did a single tempo run, and my longest run was 7 miles, but most long runs were 5-6 miles. Easy pace was 8:30. Boy could I crush those intervals tho.
Yeah. I'm not in 50 flat shape anymore lol. Don't think I ever will be unless somehow I walk on to my university track team and train for it. Would be a miracle. It's a long shot and they're d1.. haha. I still time trial the 400 quite frequently though and depending on how fit I am it's usually around 54-56 (coming off of the type of training that made me break 5).
I do plan on running at meets unattached so maybe that can help (if the whole ronavirus situation gets better). Thank you for your insight! That's what I'm saying too. Whenever I pass 5 miles my body just breaks down lol -
hot weather shuffler wrote:
You could look up the Clyde Hart stuff. I know a lot of people seem to hate it but I think it's good.
Absolutely. Will give it a look. Thanks -
800m ? wrote:
23.9 ??
50.1
1:27 ??
Most 50 flat people are running mid to low 22s for 200 and 1:25 for 600m.
I guess I’m just different lol. The only race I’d ever run was the 400 and I never trained for the other events. If my coaches trained me for those too I’d probably run those times. Idunno. Like you said, “most” -
As a former speed-based 800m who probably lost the edge by trying to be a longer distance runner than naturally inclined, I endorse CopperRunner's workouts, which I do now with aspirations of being a grandmaster flash, except for slower interval times. As an M55, I find I am more interested in the intervals and ladders, and can handle them better than the higher mileage stuff. I also like those sugar hills, which I can do right in my neighborhood because I live on a hill, although the neighbors find it a bit odd.
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Hi PLs -
I am fortunate to work with about 15 PC and HS 800m (Women 2:00-2:09; Men 1:47-1:55) runners and have compiled my free thoughts and free training plans on the link below. If you spend the time to work through the links you’ll have plenty of information.... you’ll just need to do the work. There are about 150-200 pages of helpful information on the site.
Coloradotrackclub.com.
Just scroll down to “training plans” or “CTC training philosophy” and start digging.
All the best -
Rob
