Is Hobbs Kessler the most talented high school miler ever?

Hobbs has the best shoes and fastest tracks to run on. Ryun would smoke him!! Just keeping it real.

Dairyland wrote:

I’d say considering the he had the advantage of trading with pros and collegiate athletes, no.

I think Justyn Knight broke 4 as a senior and he started running as a sophomore. Could be wrong about that tho

I know too much about this wrote:

N A T T Y wrote:

What were Justyn Knight's high school prs? Was he really only 4:20/9:28? What about 400/800?

No, that was Tyler Day.

JKnight ran 1:55/3:58/8:19 by his grade 12 outdoor school track season, but in the summer after grade 12 he ran 1:52.08/3:47.39/8:07.95/14:08.93

I know he ran a couple 4x400s, but I'm not sure what his best split was.

(From another thread)

Go run fast wrote:

Only 3 NCAA athletes have run faster this year. Yes, he became the future of American 1500 runners over the last 24 hours.

I was going to mention the same thing. With Drew Hunter and Alan Webb, both had a lot of build up and anticipation toward their peak mile performances. During Webb's 3:53, there was reference to him during the entire race. People knew that they were our future before they even did something special on the track.

Hobbs here, went from unknown to US distance savior overnight. They barely mentioned his name throughout the live race. Never have we seen such a burst onto the scene, especially in such a social-media heavy climate. Most would be vlogging about how great they are leading up to it. Sounds like he has a great head on his shoulders and am super excited about what the future holds for him

lease wrote:

Ryun ran 3:39.0 for 1500m about 20 months after starting high school training.

Some weeks past his 17th birthday.

More than half a century ago.

And, at the time of Ryun's 3:39.0, the AR was 3:38.1. So case closed on this one. Ryun hands down the best.

Me personally, and as a Michigander, no ones better than Ryun. Dude was just different. Supreme confidence, multiple times sub 4 across two years let alone on trash tracks with trash spikes. His proximity to the world elite...I think Hobbs is amazing and I've been on this boat for a while, but I think someone would have to run a good bit lower than the current outdoor record to pass him up imo.

This kid ran this without knowing he could. He closed in 27. Next time, he will go out in 3:54 pace instead of 4 minute pace. Just amazing that the Michigan guys and Willis have been helping him along and he can probably beat every one of them if he raced again in two weeks. Willis is not going faster than 3:56 indoor at this point but Kessler could drop a bomb of 3:53 without it being a shock now.

Dairyland wrote:

I’d say considering the he had the advantage of trading with pros and collegiate athletes, no.

I think Justyn Knight broke 4 as a senior and he started running as a sophomore. Could be wrong about that tho

Not to get technical, but Justyn Knight ran 3:47 in the 1500m as a High School senior, and broke 4 indoors as a first year at Syracuse. Still pretty impressive though.

I do not believe that Hobbs is the most talented HS miler ever out of Michigan. I believe that title goes to Brazier.

I've already covered this topic in other LRC threads.

A national class 800m runner from the 60s (raced against Jim Ryun) already determined that cinder was 2-3 seconds slower than tartan tracks.

To be sub-4 on cinder tracks is 3:55-56 on tartan tracks.

That means only Jim Ryun, Tim Danielson, Marty Liquori and Alan Webb are sub-4 HS milers by cinder track standards.

I don't know the conversion for carbon-plate (cheater) spikes, but I don't think this guy breaks 4 on tartan tracks without carbon-plate shoes. Maybe I am wrong.

The question is if he is the most talented, not if he has run as fast after conversions. He is the most talented. He did this in his first attempt. He is going to so much faster than Ryun this year even after converting for tracks.

citius-altius-fortius wrote:

I've already covered this topic in other LRC threads.

A national class 800m runner from the 60s (raced against Jim Ryun) already determined that cinder was 2-3 seconds slower than tartan tracks.

To be sub-4 on cinder tracks is 3:55-56 on tartan tracks.

That means only Jim Ryun, Tim Danielson, Marty Liquori and Alan Webb are sub-4 HS milers by cinder track standards.

I don't know the conversion for carbon-plate (cheater) spikes, but I don't think this guy breaks 4 on tartan tracks without carbon-plate shoes. Maybe I am wrong.

Pretty sure he ran in the dragonfly, which don't have a carbon plate. Just the same plastic plate that's been in use for forever

You are not wrong. We will see high school 5 guys who should be 4:05 guys now break 4 minutes in the mile. In college and pros guys will go sub 13 and sub 27:30.

Go run fast wrote:

The question is if he is the most talented, not if he has run as fast after conversions. He is the most talented. He did this in his first attempt. He is going to so much faster than Ryun this year even after converting for tracks.

You've restated the same question, but proved yourself wrong.

Please don't argue logic with a former academic.

Stick to facts.

It can not be proven. The question is regarding talent. We have no real way to measure talent. All we can do is speculate, and look at form, and look at training, and look at times. I say that he is the most talented. You say that he is not. You try to prove it by comparing a one time effort to many efforts by his predecessors. Sit back and watch when he runs 3:50 in June.

And it is too bad that you lost your elementary school teaching job.

citius-altius-fortius wrote:

I've already covered this topic in other LRC threads.

A national class 800m runner from the 60s (raced against Jim Ryun) already determined that cinder was 2-3 seconds slower than tartan tracks.

To be sub-4 on cinder tracks is 3:55-56 on tartan tracks.

That means only Jim Ryun, Tim Danielson, Marty Liquori and Alan Webb are sub-4 HS milers by cinder track standards.

I don't know the conversion for carbon-plate (cheater) spikes, but I don't think this guy breaks 4 on tartan tracks without carbon-plate shoes. Maybe I am wrong.

Did Webb run Sub-4 on cinders?

Sorry. I get it. Webb's time would be sub 4 even accounting for the assistance provided by the tartan track.

Lifetime climber and runner here -

the kid has a stated goal of being the first human to break 4 and climb a 5.15a. I'm not sure if most comprehend the significance of climbing 5.15a. Its a level that was only first climbed in the early 2000s. It takes some of the best climbers in the world a lifetime to reach that level. Some never do.

I just can't overstate how good the kid is at rock climbing and couple that with being the fastest high schooler ever, I'm in shock.

Ackley wrote:

citius-altius-fortius wrote:

I've already covered this topic in other LRC threads.

A national class 800m runner from the 60s (raced against Jim Ryun) already determined that cinder was 2-3 seconds slower than tartan tracks.

To be sub-4 on cinder tracks is 3:55-56 on tartan tracks.

That means only Jim Ryun, Tim Danielson, Marty Liquori and Alan Webb are sub-4 HS milers by cinder track standards.

I don't know the conversion for carbon-plate (cheater) spikes, but I don't think this guy breaks 4 on tartan tracks without carbon-plate shoes. Maybe I am wrong.

Did Webb run Sub-4 on cinders?

Would have.

Not hard for former HS runners who were fast to do the comparisons.

I watched videos of the Michigan HS runner. We'll see. I haven't the same high hopes as others, but with the new shoes, who knows? Dragonfly's are getting rave reviews.

As for the other post, I wasn't an elementary school teacher. University.

edward teech wrote:

Lifetime climber and runner here -

the kid has a stated goal of being the first human to break 4 and climb a 5.15a. I'm not sure if most comprehend the significance of climbing 5.15a. Its a level that was only first climbed in the early 2000s. It takes some of the best climbers in the world a lifetime to reach that level. Some never do.

I just can't overstate how good the kid is at rock climbing and couple that with being the fastest high schooler ever, I'm in shock.

How do you feel about Ed Viesturs?