Ultrarunners -- fully pro or still have day-jobs?

Honestly can't tell if this is a troll of not so hesitate to answer,

but yes of course some ultra runners are pro.

I heard Kilian Jornet has to wait tables to make ends meet.

Not a troll...

Kilian, I figured he was fully pro. But honestly are any others?

I recall that Jim Walmsley worked at a bike shop... but that was a few years ago at this point. Does a company like Hoka have enough to shell out to sponsored athletes to really make them self-sufficient?

shameless bump

big boom wrote:

Random question, but figure some folks on here might know.

Just curious if ultrarunners have gotten to the point with sponsorships etc. where they can focus on running full-time. Is that a thing yet? For any of them?

I think almost all European ultrarunners have a real full time job. Kilian is the exception from the rule. I also think that is the reason why they are so good.

Jim Walmsley, Camille Herron for example are full time pros and their biggest enemy is in themselves. They train and race too much because they have nothing else to do.

Others have some sponsorship but it is never that transparent how much that actually is.

Big Jim is pro. Kilian is an ad ho. All the rest have trust funds or endorse drink mixes on IG.

pumbri wrote:

Big Jim is pro. Kilian is an ad ho. All the rest have trust funds or endorse drink mixes on IG.

Hey look! It's the jealous guy who has no idea but chimes in anyhow.

well, there is people who call themselves Pro and then there are those actually making a living and not having to supplement income.

every ultrarunner i meet with an instagram account calls themselves pro, so it's tough to know the truth.

pumbri wrote:

Big Jim is pro. Kilian is an ad ho. All the rest have trust funds or endorse drink mixes on IG.

What kind of times can you throw down? I realize courses matter greatly. Thanks for chiming in.

4:31, 8:01, 10:17, 19:19

moccasin stank wrote:

well, there is people who call themselves Pro and then there are those actually making a living and not having to supplement income.

every ultrarunner i meet with an instagram account calls themselves pro, so it's tough to know the truth.

Truth

ultrarunner here wrote:

big boom wrote:

Random question, but figure some folks on here might know.

Just curious if ultrarunners have gotten to the point with sponsorships etc. where they can focus on running full-time. Is that a thing yet? For any of them?

I think almost all European ultrarunners have a real full time job. Kilian is the exception from the rule. I also think that is the reason why they are so good.

Jim Walmsley, Camille Herron for example are full time pros and their biggest enemy is in themselves. They train and race too much because they have nothing else to do.

Others have some sponsorship but it is never that transparent how much that actually is.

thanks for the insight.

do you happen to know what sort of jobs these euro runners have? i just got to imagine they need a lot of time to train...

Most euro runners, particularly the sky running folk, abuse testosterone and hgh. Probably thEPO too. The most ‘talented’ one, Francois d’haene, inherited a vineyard and rubs for Solomon.

pumbri wrote:

Most euro runners, particularly the sky running folk, abuse testosterone and hgh. Probably thEPO too. The most ‘talented’ one, Francois d’haene, inherited a vineyard and rubs for Solomon.

and who would you suggest is doping / what evidence do you have?

No doubt the sport is lucrative enough for people to be abusing PEDs. We've seen an EPO positive in the top 10 at UTMB for example and I'd imagine Testosterone/HGH etc is being abused on the MUT Running scene....even for those on small stipends and basically just travel support/gear/prize money winning (and free gear of course!). Ultimately I think the doping comes down to ego and wanting "social media fame" or whatever. There is hardly any testing in top level MUT Running! People want to be sponsored at a level where they can focus on running 100% and take time off from a typical "day job". And who doesn't want to travel the world and mess around in the mountains/trails all day most days? As far as sponsorship goes it depends on the company, the timing, and what country you are in (as well as what events you do or place well at). I'd say being American generally is an advantage there, but its not a huge number of MUT Runners that can make it as a "full time pro" and there is a huge scale in terms of support. There is definitely a lot more money than most road runners think I think. Anton Krupicka was probably one of the first "big sponsor supported" US runners in the ultra-trail "boom" circa 2007-2008. And of course Kilian has been a force for a long time. There is also a fine balance between being more of an "influencer on social media" vs being an "elite athlete". Of course one can kind of do both and I think that is probably the best ROI for sponsors. It also depends on standard of living expectations (i.e. do you want to live a comfortable life in place like Boulder?) and what you consider being "well paid" is in terms of a salary/endorsement deal? Then it depends on possible bonus structures and other perks etc. It is true, most are definitely not banking on much (if any) open prize money from doing well at races (save for maybe winning Comrades). And yes, obviously there are a lot of "trust fund athletes" who say they are "Pro" and only get free gear and maybe some travel/bonus....that's a dime a dozen in a place like Boulder. Add in gear and travel support and a possible stipend and that can be quite a bit of value in an overall sponsorship package. I'd say it's lucrative enough that some runners will dope because it's allowing for the dream to "give up the day job" to come true- and just train full time and travel to the most beautiful mountain ranges/trails in the world. Disclaimer: I'm 100% clean and follow WADA code and I'm not a "trust fund athlete". I'm also bound by contracts/NDAs to not disclosure any sort of specific details about sponsorship support in terms of numbers. There's certainly a multitude of different ways to have streams of income (balancing a combination of sponsors/brands while working endorsement deals on social media to google adsense on blogs/YouTube etc).

pumbri wrote:

Most euro runners, particularly the sky running folk, abuse testosterone and hgh. Probably thEPO too. The most ‘talented’ one, Francois d’haene, inherited a vineyard and rubs for Solomon.

S. Canaday wrote:

As far as sponsorship goes it depends on the company, the timing, and what country you are in (as well as what events you do or place well at). I'd say being American generally is an advantage there, but its not a huge number of MUT Runners that can make it as a "full time pro" and there is a huge scale in terms of support. There is definitely a lot more money than most road runners think I think. Anton Krupicka was probably one of the first "big sponsor supported" US runners in the ultra-trail "boom" circa 2007-2008. And of course Kilian has been a force for a long time.

I was always wondering about that. I can't imagine there was much money involved with Anton.

Seeing the video where he lives in his shoe closed, I don't think he got much more than race fees and shoes.

One the other hand there is Camille Herron. She recently bragged about her new $100,000 RV. She is living the high live for sure.

I'm sure Camille has a good deal of support, more than most pro's. Camille's husband also does pretty well for himself, so I don't think she's dumping 100k of Nike (now Hoka) money into the RV herself.

And thank you Sage. Love the insight and transparency.

Actually I think Anton (aka "Tony") has done quite well for himself....for sure he was/is on a stipend/salary from multiple sponsors. I mean sure he lived out of his truck in the summer and often logs 8+ hour days in the mountains exercising...but he also had [has?] an apartment in downtown Boulder for years and has probably saved up a decent amount for "retirement" (whatever that means these days). The guy is an icon and has a big social media following. I think a lot of road/track runners would be surprised how much money he makes/made (despite appearing to live a rather frugal/minimalist lifestyle). He once told me a sponsor dropped $15,000 + on a rather expensive plane ticket to fly him first class international (just one kind of specific example). Most international travel is not a financial issue if you are a well enough known (and well enough ranked) pro mountain ultra trail runner.