3:50/14:20 training

Training Advice/Discussion 5k/10k

3 years ago 01/28/2021 8:56am EST

Just built a big base and ran a longer race, taking a slight down week and rolling into the next training block. Current PRs are 4:12 and 8:25 both from time trials

Here's my plan, critique away LetsRun.

Goal races in week 10 and 12. Potential to run some other races in week 15-20.

Training at altitude

Mileage: 80-90

Long run: 1:45-1:55 (15-18 miles) 6:00-7:00 pace

Easy runs: Mostly recovery 7:30-8:00 pace unless I'm feeling particularly fresh I'll run 7 minute pace, or on a double after a workout sometimes I'll run 6:00-6:30.

Sprints+strides: 2xweekly progressing from hill sprints to accelerations to flying 40s to a 400 time trial

SESSIONS: 2.5xweekly

4 week block of subtempos every week, fartleks (ie 20x1on/1off), and high volume track workouts with short intervals (ie 20x400 5k pace)

4 week block of threshold intervals w/weekly double workouts. Other sessions are progressing the length of intervals (ie7x800 5k pace)

3 weeks of tuning up with two big specific sessions (6x1k at 5k pace, 8x400 at mile pace) done 10 days out from each goal race.

Throughout the training block, I'll do weekly 8-10x20-40 second hills or 200s/300s cutting down from 3k-mile pace on a double or tacked onto the end of a longer session. Call this a .5 workout.

It's mostly foundational training, but I've had success with this style of work before. Let me know your thoughts.

If that's what you like.

I'm guessing you are in mid-20s.

I am also guessing the 4:12 and 8:25 are for 1600 and 3000.

If so, are they recent or years ago?

3 years ago 01/28/2021 9:10am EST

re: clac

I'm 25. Mile and 3k. From late 2020.

Looks really good !! I'm looking to hit the same times as you and my schedule is very similar, but I run less volume and a bit quicker (6:30s / 60 mpw). I'm also a freshman, so if you're older it makes sense that you run more.

I would say that your "big" workouts at 5k pace could be a bit tougher - 6x1km @ 5k isn't what I'd consider to be "big peak workout". It's usually a weekly normal 8/10 for me. I'd maybe throw some mile reps, even a 2k, in there with 1k reps, as I find 1ks at 5k can be a bit easy if you're used to them. You could also do a different style of big workout, where you run at Race pace for a extended period and then hammer out some quicker short stuff, so ie; 3k @ 5k + some faster 1ks/800s/400s. Similarly, for the mile go for a 1000m @ ~ mile + a couple 200s quick. Not for everyone though, some people prefer a high volume of repeats, but it can be nice to switch it up.

I also think that tempos are better than threshold intervals, but it's a personal thing . I like the mental aspect of tempos, but if you find that cruise intervals are better for you do that as they're pretty equivalent.

Finally, I'd get some 800 pace stuff, maybe 150-200-300 reps totalling 2km max with around 2' rest when you're getting into the mile races. IMO, overdistance work is much more important for a miler (especially one who does the 5k) but hitting some faster stuff in a real workout (not just doing strides) is beneficial.

Overall it's a good plan! good luck

Hopefully, they don't cancel all outdoor races. wrote:
I'm 25. Mile and 3k. From late 2020.

In that case, I think your workouts are way over the top for 3:50 1500m.

As to a fast 5k, if you can stay off of roads and sidewalks, you probably will run sub-14:20.

I'm not a fan of Lydiard, and even HRE has tried to post as to what Lydiard was really about.

Maybe he can take your situation into context and see if Lydiard is best for you.

I was all about speed.

Run fast.

Run fast often.

Go out at a pace no one else wants, and then be fast enough to kick even if from the front.

No way I can do that from the high mileage and high repetition type workouts.

We never ran more than 1 hour in college (10 miles in 58-60 minutes), although the workout-crazy head coach did have his best runner and another runner (also out of college) do a 15 miler at 5:20 per mile one time. In my late 20s, I did run 15 miles at 5:15 per mile and 10 miles at 51:28, but not when I was really focused on fast 1500m. I was back at 1:53 and 3:56 for when 29 (after having electricity run through my hip for 3 separate sessions), and I was only training average mileage.

If you stay on grass and trails, I am guessing you will get get the 3:50, and 14:10, and 8:08-10 for 3k.

3 years ago 01/28/2021 1:10pm EST

re: looks good overall

looks good overall wrote:
Looks really good !! I'm looking to hit the same times as you and my schedule is very similar, but I run less volume and a bit quicker (6:30s / 60 mpw). I'm also a freshman, so if you're older it makes sense that you run more.
I would say that your "big" workouts at 5k pace could be a bit tougher - 6x1km @ 5k isn't what I'd consider to be "big peak workout". It's usually a weekly normal 8/10 for me. I'd maybe throw some mile reps, even a 2k, in there with 1k reps, as I find 1ks at 5k can be a bit easy if you're used to them. You could also do a different style of big workout, where you run at Race pace for a extended period and then hammer out some quicker short stuff, so ie; 3k @ 5k + some faster 1ks/800s/400s. Similarly, for the mile go for a 1000m @ ~ mile + a couple 200s quick. Not for everyone though, some people prefer a high volume of repeats, but it can be nice to switch it up.
I also think that tempos are better than threshold intervals, but it's a personal thing . I like the mental aspect of tempos, but if you find that cruise intervals are better for you do that as they're pretty equivalent.
Finally, I'd get some 800 pace stuff, maybe 150-200-300 reps totalling 2km max with around 2' rest when you're getting into the mile races. IMO, overdistance work is much more important for a miler (especially one who does the 5k) but hitting some faster stuff in a real workout (not just doing strides) is beneficial.
Overall it's a good plan! good luck

Thanks man, appreciate the advice! Good luck to you too

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