N.C State, Women's XC, and distance updates

Just look at zofia Dudek. And stop the nonsense about whether they're American or Not Kids R Kids

Anyway Dudek travel tons... she travel to Europe to compete, she competed in Footlocker. And she just had a great freshman race and will probably finish top ten in the country definitely top 20

Same thing with Taylor ewert she's doing great she competed a lot in high school, same thing with Sasha neglia

It has nothing to do with travel or running a couple of All Star races. It's mostly just genetics and how you develop but I'd agree that it's better to be safe and keep the mileage down for younger kids

+ R Frasier who is back and healthy

What about Jenny Simpson, Molly Huddle , Molly Seidel, Sara Hall. Elise Cranny all ran at Footlocker or NXN. Houlihan competed at NXN and ran all the big track races. Emily Sisson 4 x footlocker national finalist,

Schweizer, Frerichs, Coburn were unknowns and did take it slow in high school. So your statement almost all of the top female distance runners took it slow in high school was not accurate.

Mariah Howlett was #3 in ACC Championships

https://gopack.com/documents/2020/10/30//ACC_WOMEN.pdf

But there is a way to predict this.

Look to the girls who compete/race enough to extend their per-pubescent peak beyond what makes sense, they have ruined themselves. By training to the point that their body doesn't start changing, because then when it does change it's very very rough and also comes at a much worse time.

And yes traveling and racing isn't inherently bad, but training such to be ready to race fast large portions of the time isn't idea.

Look at Sydney thorvaldson, she trained really hard, but has progressed every year

Look at Taylor ewert she trained really hard and competed in two different Fitness Sports, and she's doing great

Look at Kelsey Camille she was part of a running program that was really dedicated and she trained and competed internationally and she's doing great

Look at zofia Dudek she trained internationally, and she's progressing and doing great

There's no evidence that any specific Runner we are discussing, did anything dramatic but rather just the luck of the draw how some people develop

Look at weenie kallati, she trained really hard and traveled around to all the big races and she's doing great

Look at the post where the guy mentions all the top female Runners who competed in Nationals such as Jenny Simpson and about five or six others

Yeah I mean obviously if you're completely over the top in some respect that can hurt your long-term abilities, but there's no evidence that anyone really knows of that for the people we're discussing

It's all just trying to retrofit a simple explanation on the really complex process of how any person develops. On the ups and downs of training. On the randomness of injuries. Other life events.

Houlihan. Schweizer. Frerichs. Coburn. The elite Americans were low mileage, slow developers. Comparing them to Thorvaldson is silly. Check back in a few years to tell us if she runs 14:45 or 14:25. She make the case for developing slowly if she toos out at 15:45.

jack2651 wrote:

What about Jenny Simpson, Molly Huddle , Molly Seidel, Sara Hall. Elise Cranny all ran at Footlocker or NXN. Houlihan competed at NXN and ran all the big track races. Emily Sisson 4 x footlocker national finalist,

Schweizer, Frerichs, Coburn were unknowns and did take it slow in high school. So your statement almost all of the top female distance runners took it slow in high school was not accurate.

Proud American face it you're like a flat earther, you're taking a couple of data points and running wild with an extreme Theory

Jack already responded in pointed out how silly your response was and gave 6 obvious examples of women who didn't take it easy in high school and are great distance Runners

Let's add Jordan hasay and make it 7

And can you actually quote the mileage of the girls that you're even talking about and what they did in high school. I doubt it! Just because they weren't great in high school and got better doesn't mean that's the path everyone has to take

Science says otherwise.

Dudek arrived fairly late on the scene and we’ll see with Thorvaldsen.

A lot of times they get away with being decent their first year in college, Chmiel I think we have already noted is significantly worse than a year ago.

You aren’t going to agree with this concept, that’s fine, history will bear out the results. The main topic of this thread was the NC State team. I agree with the few who were wondering where EVERYONE is who was saying a few months ago they’d win the next 4 national titles easily. They don’t have a pedigree of good coaching and recruited a ton of kids who would have issues and need a ton of coaching. Not going to end well. This year will be their highest finish of the next 5 years.

Those people have all gone into hiding. The same people claimed that Tuohy may win the individual title this year. There were some saying the team title would not even be close.

Deena Kastor did not take it easy in high school! American record holder in the women's marathon!

In high school, Kastor won three California state cross country titles and two CIF California State Meet titles at 3200 meters while running for Agoura High School in Agoura Hills, California. *

*She also competed in the Foot Locker Cross Country Championships all four years of her prep career, and competed in both the North American Youth Maccabi Games and the Pan-American Maccabiah while in high school.*

At the University of Arkansas she was a four-time SEC champion and an eight-time All-American. Post-collegiately, Kastor ran under coaches Joe Vigil and Terrence Mahon. Since 2015, she has been coached by her husband, Andrew Kastor head of the Mammoth Track Club.

Kastor has earned two silver medals (2002 Dublin, long race; 2003 Lausanne, long race) in the IAAF World Cross Country Championships.

She holds U.S. records in the following events:

Women's marathon (set when winning the 2006 Flora London Marathon with a time of 2:19:36)

Women's road 10 mile (set at the 2006 Berlin Half Marathon with a time of 51:31)

Women's road 15K (set at the 2003 Gate River Run in Jacksonville with a time of 47:15)

Women's road 8K (set at the 2005 The LaSalle Bank Shamrock Shuffle in Chicago with a time of 24:36)

Kastor formerly held the following records:

Women's half marathon (set at the 2006 Berlin Half Marathon with a time of 1:07:34)

Women's 10,000 metres (set at Stanford in 2002 with a time of 30:50.32)

Women's road 5K (set at the 2002 Carlsbad 5000 with a time of 14:54)

While there were several who made grand predictions for NC State, there was more to the discussion than just that.

You're spreading nonsense! Shelby Houlihan along with 90% of the other top American female distance Runners did not take it easy in high school!

Shelby Houlihan High school

Houlihan attended East High School in Sioux City. She held high school personal records of 4:43.64 in the one mile run, 2:07.35 in the 800 meter run, and 4:26.39 in the 1500 meter run. She was the 2011 Iowa Gatorade Player of the Year awards Girls Track and Field Runner of the Year and the 2010 Iowa Gatorade Player of the Year awards Girls Cross Country Runner of the Year. She claimed eight Drake Relays crowns, while also earning the title of Drake Relays Outstanding Female High School Performer for being the first female athlete from a high school to win three events in one year. Houlihan graduated from East in 2011.

Karissa Schweizer ran 4 of cross country as well as track and field in high school

She competed in nxn regionals all four years of high school and finally made it to nxn Nationals her senior year

Cross Country Bio

All

High School

Season Records

4,000 Meters

2010 9th Grade 14:18.0

2011 10th Grade 14:21.0

2012 11th Grade 14:08.0 *

2013 12th Grade 14:07.0PR *

5,000 Meters

2010 9th Grade 18:28.7

2011 10th Grade 15:03.0PR *

2012 11th Grade 18:42.5

2013 12th Grade 17:51.4

*Improvement

2013 Season

Dowling Catholic HS12th Grade

4,000 Meters

3 14:16.0 Sep 21 Roosevelt 7th Heartland Classic

1 14:07.0PR Oct 24 Class 4A District/Regional

2 14:09.8 Nov 2 IHSAA 4A State Cross Country Championship

5,000 Meters

8 18:41.7 Sep 28 Roy Griak Invite

4 17:51.4SR Nov 10 Nike Cross Heartland Regional (NXN)

47 18:22.4 Dec 7 NXN Nike Cross Nationals

2012 Season

Dowling Catholic HS11th Grade

4,000 Meters

2 15:09.0 Sep 1 Dutch Invitational 2012

1 14:42.0 Sep 6 Bobcat 39th XC Invitational 2012

5 14:34.0 Sep 15 Heartland Classic (7th) 2012

1 14:36.0 Sep 20 Indianola 44th XC Invitational 2012

3 14:08.0SR Oct 27 Iowa State Cross Country Championships

5,000 Meters

11 19:06.2 Sep 29 27th Annual Roy Griak Invitational

16 18:42.5SR Nov 11 Nike Cross Heartland Regional (NXN)

2011 Season

Dowling Catholic HS10th Grade

4,000 Meters

1 14:52.0 Sep 8 Bobcat 38th CC Invitational 2011

2 14:25.0 Sep 17 Roosevelt Heartland Classic (6th) 2011

7 14:21.0SR Oct 29 Iowa 4A State Cross Country Championships

5,000 Meters

6 19:07.9 Sep 24 Roy Griak Invitational 2011

1 15:03.0PR Sep 29 Ankeny CC Invitational 2011

11 18:39.5 Nov 13 NXN Nike Cross Heartland Regional 2011

2010 Season

Dowling Catholic HS9th Grade

4,000 Meters

2 15:19.0 Sep 9 Bobcat 37th CC Invitational 2010

3 15:06.0 Sep 18 Heartland CC Classic

2 14:54.0 Sep 30 Ankeny Invitational

5 14:18.0SR Oct 30 IHSAA 4A State Cross Country Championships

5,000 Meters

23 19:42.2 Sep 25 Roy Griak Invite 2010

9 18:28.7SR Nov 14 Nike Cross Heartland Regional (NXN)

128 20:57.0 Dec 4 Nike Cross Nationals

Drake is in the regular track season.

I'm not saying if a kid goes to a few out of season meets it's the end. But if you show me one who went to a ton and also clearly never had a down period where their body changed.

Then I'm going to show you a kid who is going to at the very least have a rough patch coming.

Bumping this up because I was reminded today that the NC state coach had reported back in Oct 2020 that she was optimistic both Katelyn Tuohy and Marlee Starliper would be ready to compete at Ncaa XC Champs but as we saw yesterday only Tuohy was ready. Anyone have an update on Marlee?

Just didn't get healthy in time I guess. Scroll down in article to 3rd to the last paragraph:

https://trackandfieldnews.com/article/prize-recruit-marlee-starliper-nc-state/

fanagan wrote:

Bumping this up because I was reminded today that the NC state coach had reported back in Oct 2020 that she was optimistic both Katelyn Tuohy and Marlee Starliper would be ready to compete at Ncaa XC Champs but as we saw yesterday only Tuohy was ready. Anyone have an update on Marlee?

Coach Henes did an interview that is on Flotrack. Several takeaways. She seemed to say her seniors are coming back. Clairmonte had had mono and 2 weeks before the NCAA they made the decision she could run, knowing she would not be in top form. Tuohy had some procedure done in June. It was supposed to be in March, but then things shut down. No running all summer and into the Fall. They wanted Tuohy to run with Chmiel and Steelman in the NCAA championship as long as she could, knowing she would not be able to hang with them the entire race. Not a mention of Starliper in the interview, though she appears in current Instagram posts with other NC State runners. Zachgo ended up in really bad shape after the race, but by the next day was all right. She just went too hard from 3K to 5K.

Getting the team to the championship reasonably healthy seems like the key challenge. All the teams are banged up. Clairmonte having mono though is next level bad luck.

So this confirms that Katelyn had surgery in June. The fascinating thing thing is that the poster who came on in July was lying through his teeth about "major surgery" and visible scars. Anyway she has clearly recovered and now it is just a matter of regaining form/fitness. So much for her being "done." They basically knew that she would not be able to stay with Steelman and Chimel, but she hung tough. She will have a real chance to win it in the coming years.