Vaccinated people MAY STILL BE SPREADERS

trashcan wrote:

Previous threads have covered this. There is growing evidence that the vaccines will reduce transmission, probably by a lot, but it has not been studied as a primary data point yet.

100%

And we should have real trial data on asymptomatic cases from the American trials at some points... that will confirm

There is no universe in which a vaccine that reduces severe symptoms by 95-100% also does not significantly reduce infectiousness. Stop the fear-mongering.

Harambe wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

This makes Biden’s negligence even more breathtaking. You’re saying Biden put COVID infected national guard troops around previously healthy national guard troops who in turn probably infected their families and friends when they returned to private life the next day.

Who knows how many people are now sick and potentially how many lives are going to be lost due to this one super spreader event.

I remember when you used to actually debate and bring useful information to the table.

Now it's just bottom-tier trolling. Like Sham 69 bad.

Another brain broken by Trump's loss. Sad to see.

Perhaps if Biden had recommended gargling a cocktail of bleach, hydroxychloroquine and sunlight, ELE would have recognized the brilliance of his leadership.

clown world out there wrote:

Seriously when will this train wreck pandemic end? We’re going to have a bunch of vaccinated people running around celebrating their freedom and spreading the virus just like those spring breakers in March. And you better believe they’ll be deniers too, even if evidence shows vaccinated people can spread it, vaccinated people will deny or ignore this info

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55784199

Tried to have this conversation many times here surrounding this very issue and how dangerous the word "vaccine" is based on the vast majority of people who believe that a "vaccine" provides a stop gate to contracting the virus and hence spreading it.

The issue is almost no nation (and certainly not the US) has been able to find a medium or balance between maintaining simple rights and freedoms and controlling situations that may spread it. I often ask myself why, 10 months ago, did the nation grind to a halt with business shutting and millions put out of work when we don't do this now and the numbers show that we are in a far worse place case number (and new cases per day) wise? What exactly was the point of that if we don't do this now? The answer is there was no point - just a stupid emotional response not based on fact or science. The other day I went to a bar with my fiancé which like all bars is now spaced outdoor seating. I stood in line dutifully wearing my mask to order and as soon as I sat down I joined every other patron there without a mask drinking my old-fashioned. And this is in Portland, Oregon with a crew of people who I promise you would go out of their way to lecture you of the importance of wearing a mask as you scaled Mt Hood by yourself in a snowstorm.

These "vaccine/but-not-really-vaccines" will simply serve to enable exactly what you pointed out - they will serve as vehicles to release the frustration of things like losing a job, being told you can't socialize and public shaming into pointless acts like wearing a mask while walking your dog around outside or driving your own freaking car.

Interesting but related side topic - at what point does society reach the "f-this" point and just completely over-correct? another year? 2? I mean we aren't sitting here in 3 years time wearing masks and being afraid to go for a run for the fear of some self-righteous f%$k going out of their way (and encroaching on 6ft of social distancing) to tell you that you should be wearing a mask with no scientific basis. I'm giving it 6 months.

trashcan wrote:

"... but it has not been studied as a primary data point yet.

"

What does that mean?

It means that a study should not try to prove a bunch of different things. It tries to prove one or 2 things. That is the primary data point. Anything else it looks at should be taken as “well that is intetesting and should be followed up” or “it looks like this, but I can say it has been proven”

This is because, based on the way statistics are done, if you study 20 issues, each of which have no actual relationship, one of them will likely return a statistically significant result based on random variation.

In the case of the moderna vaccine, they looked at disease and severe disease as the primary data points. Asymptomatic infection at the time of the second injection was a secondary data point. They were clear about this and did not represent it as clear proof.

Sorry, this isn't correct. Not trying to argue, just want to help everyone understand.

We tend to think of a vaccine as providing complete immunity against a particular pathogen. NONE of the currently available vaccines do this.

The covid vaccines provide an opportunity for your immune system to prepare ahead of time, so that your likelihood of dying or getting very sick is greatly lessened - if and when you get covid.

These vaccines DO NOT stop you from getting covid. They DO NOT stop you from spreading covid to others if and when you get covid (although you may be less likely to spread it).

Now you know. And GI Joe says knowing is half the battle![/quote]

Correct.

You have repeatedly demonstrated your misunderstanding of immunology and not changed your tune despite repeated corrections on here.

Complete sterilizing immunity is not necessary for a vaccine to stop the pandemic. There is excellent evidence already that preventing symptomatic infections (which we know the vaccines do) correlates with lower viral load and likely lowers transmission rates.

Israel is seeing a marked downturn in positive after vaccinating a significant portion of their population.

You claim you are not anti-vaxx but repeated parroting false information ("vaccine but not really vaccine" etc) suggests you a bias against them, at the very least. Do you own Regeneron stock? lol

Also, sterilizing immunity in response to a vaccine is decidedly not the norm. Measles vaccine gives 97% protection moderna/Pfizer 94-95%. Influenza vaccines far lower.

Do the mRNA vaccines provide proportional prevention of Covid transmission? Not certain, but it looks to me like the protection will be quite good, good enough for herd immunity if enough people get it.

Good new paper:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20568-4#Sec4

Only those with lowest levels of successfully neutralizing antibodies still had infectious virus in their respiratory tracts.

High levels of neutralizing antibodies = not contagious (this suggests). Lots of caveats (only hospitalized patients used, this wasn't a vaccine study, etc, read the paper).

Dwight shultz wrote:

Oh bore off .

When youre vaccinated that's it . Stop being bitter others have more freedom than you .

Actually I am probably enjoying even more freedom than those vaccinated because I have something that might be even better: fresh antibodies. I had Covid 4 weeks ago. I still wear masks everywhere they are required but I don’t stress about where I go, how soon l can get a vaccine, or what will happen if I get Covid.

clown world out there wrote:

Actually I am probably enjoying even more freedom than those vaccinated because I have something that might be even better: fresh antibodies. I had Covid 4 weeks ago. I still wear masks everywhere they are required but I don’t stress about where I go, how soon l can get a vaccine, or what will happen if I get Covid.

.

Hell, I doubt I have had it and will avoid the vaccine. I wear a mask as required. I don't stress about Covid. 12 months in and nobody I know has gotten sick from this. I know of people who have gotten it, but that's it. I know a fear mongering campaign when I see it. I lived thru the post 911 fear mongering campaign.

The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting the virus. It reduces the length of time you are ill (because your immune system has been trained to fight it). In theory, if you are ill for a shorter length of time, then there is a reduced window for you to spread the virus. Vaccination plus a harsh lockdown is the only way to finish covid off. There is a lockdown right here in the UK but it is pathetic and lots of people are still out and mixing together.