Elevation gain per week is superior to training by mileage or time

And if you live in Florida? Are there no fast runners from Florida?

Another giver of +1 wrote:

And if you live in Florida? Are there no fast runners from Florida?

Taking me out of context. If you live some where flat, you'll have to train like that. But there are ways to incorporate hills or simulate them in your training if you live somewhere like Florida i.e. treadmill on a incline, stadium steps, stairs, bridges, weights, cycling and parking garage. Like I'm blanking on the name but there's a elite female ultra runner who lives in Nebraska and I believe won Western states or got top five and she got creative with trying to work on hills living in a flat state.

I follow loads of pro-cyclists on Strava and many rarely average 30 km/h in basetraining but elevates 2500-3500 meters every session, in camp.

Lots of hills make you "strong", but that doesn't mean you are "fast".... you need to train fast to run fast

hills are the key wrote:

Another giver of +1 wrote:

And if you live in Florida? Are there no fast runners from Florida?

Taking me out of context. If you live some where flat, you'll have to train like that. But there are ways to incorporate hills or simulate them in your training if you live somewhere like Florida i.e. treadmill on a incline, stadium steps, stairs, bridges, weights, cycling and parking garage. Like I'm blanking on the name but there's a elite female ultra runner who lives in Nebraska and I believe won Western states or got top five and she got creative with trying to work on hills living in a flat state.

Volume is volume and efficiency on flats can quickly translate to efficiency on climbs...There are so many strong 'flat runners' who crush the trail scene w/out much specificity. There aren't many who primarily focus on vert in their training that crush the flats

I think Jim walmsleys recent trials performance tells you everything about vert training.

It takes you far

But only so far

I know lots of hill runners. They aren't very fast on the road.

hills are the key wrote:

Another giver of +1 wrote:

And if you live in Florida? Are there no fast runners from Florida?

Taking me out of context. If you live some where flat, you'll have to train like that. But there are ways to incorporate hills or simulate them in your training if you live somewhere like Florida i.e. treadmill on a incline, stadium steps, stairs, bridges, weights, cycling and parking garage. Like I'm blanking on the name but there's a elite female ultra runner who lives in Nebraska and I believe won Western states or got top five and she got creative with trying to work on hills living in a flat state.

You don't know much about Nebraska.

Unless you are training for something like Mt. Washington or maybe a hilly ultra, I don't see the point in running hills stepper than 10% grade (except maybe for hill sprints)

At 12% grade or above, the average runner might even need to walk just to keep their quads from imploding.

Premise of the thread is completely false. Training by elevation will make you better at one thing, hills. This is fine if you want to be a mountain runner or something. However, most major road races, even those with hills, are still pretty flat. I spent a summer living in the mountains and running up and down one once. In fall, I sucked at races because I then went back to my college town in a flat humid area, where all the races were fairly flat and humid. Train for what you're going to race. There is no secret strategy.

good runnner wrote:

Premise of the thread is completely false. Training by elevation will make you better at one thing, hills. This is fine if you want to be a mountain runner or something. However, most major road races, even those with hills, are still pretty flat. I spent a summer living in the mountains and running up and down one once. In fall, I sucked at races because I then went back to my college town in a flat humid area, where all the races were fairly flat and humid. Train for what you're going to race. There is no secret strategy.

Ever heard of Henry Rono, and Jousha Cheptegei?

hills are the key wrote:

good runnner wrote:

Premise of the thread is completely false. Training by elevation will make you better at one thing, hills. This is fine if you want to be a mountain runner or something. However, most major road races, even those with hills, are still pretty flat. I spent a summer living in the mountains and running up and down one once. In fall, I sucked at races because I then went back to my college town in a flat humid area, where all the races were fairly flat and humid. Train for what you're going to race. There is no secret strategy.

Ever heard of Henry Rono, and Jousha Cheptegei?

I'm pretty sure Henry Rono did huge amounts of track intervals, and I'm pretty sure he didn't structure his training so as to maximize elevation gained.

Well well well, what have we here? Looks like a sweeping generalization.

crm023 wrote:

hills are the key wrote:

Ever heard of Henry Rono, and Jousha Cheptegei?

I'm pretty sure Henry Rono did huge amounts of track intervals, and I'm pretty sure he didn't structure his training so as to maximize elevation gained.

Yeah after months of hill work. Even during the track season when he was doing intervals he would start it off with a morning session of hills.

hills are the key wrote:

Big brain time. Focusing on running elevation per week is superior to focusing on miles per week or amount of time per week as far as your easy volume goes. It's just people be too prideful to slow down and get some vert climb. This week bros, try it out. Focus on vert climbed this week. Discus.

Most of the fastest trail runners (men) still do road/track workouts. Running only vert can kill your leg speed.

Fgtrtd wrote:

hills are the key wrote:

Big brain time. Focusing on running elevation per week is superior to focusing on miles per week or amount of time per week as far as your easy volume goes. It's just people be too prideful to slow down and get some vert climb. This week bros, try it out. Focus on vert climbed this week. Discus.

Most of the fastest trail runners (men) still do road/track workouts. Running only vert can kill your leg speed.

Taking me out of context. I'm not saying not to do speed work or fast stuff over flat terrain in training. I'm talking about for easy mileage focus on elevation gain vs miles or time.

In steep hills the muscles used are different than flat running so it is a specifc skill for those needing to run in hilly terrain. Flatter hills are strengthening the more specific muscles for flat running and are more beneficial.

If you were right, every top class runner would employ large amounts of elevation and not milage.

Yes. I have found this to be true. If you are going for speed, you can't just run mountains.

Hills are a great way to increase aerobic stimulus though, and muscle strength, without having to run too fast.