(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 1/24/21

@outsiderunner & @darkwave - Myrtle Beach just got postponed to May 1.

Don't know if that changes anything for y'all.

Tyler - Thanks for the update, disappointing as it is. Yes, it does chaange things for me. May in South Carolina sounds like a complete sweat-fest.

Tyler_Runs_Lifts wrote:

@outsiderunner & @darkwave - Myrtle Beach just got postponed to May 1.

Don't know if that changes anything for y'all.

Yup - I know. Saw earlier.

Louisiana is on for that same weekend, so I might do that one. Or just complete the cycle and take a down week. I could also skip my 10 miler next weekend, do 20 instead, and then taper down for Atlanta a week earlier.

OR - I thought SC didn't have a travel restriction.

Tyler_Runs_Lifts wrote:

@darkwave - Sounds like they ironed out the details by the time outsiderunner toed the starting line for the half marathon.

I just contacted the RD and he told me that the 5K actually has 4-5 people trying to go between 14:45-15:30. That's good intel for anybody looking to run the 5K. It's 10K or bust, for me, since I'd be traveling to get to this race.

If the RD is who I think it is, he's a great guy. I also know who those 5k guys are, and they are definitely fit, so that's going to be a legit field.

darkwave wrote:

Tyler_Runs_Lifts wrote:

@outsiderunner & @darkwave - Myrtle Beach just got postponed to May 1.

Don't know if that changes anything for y'all.

Yup - I know. Saw earlier.

Louisiana is on for that same weekend, so I might do that one. Or just complete the cycle and take a down week. I could also skip my 10 miler next weekend, do 20 instead, and then taper down for Atlanta a week earlier.

OR - I thought SC didn't have a travel restriction.

@darkwave - If you can still sign up, The Woodlands Marathon is the same weekend as the Louisiana Marathon and is a go as of this moment. Looks to be a good field and a good course. I thought about doing the 10K there, but work is getting in the way.

Tyler - Yes I saw that Grandmas was capped and full at 4000. I'd signup on the off chance they open up to 8000. Not sure if they took that off the table yet.

Stone - Glad the Mrs is taking the miles well! Reasonable plan with the using as an excuse to train/get fit. I basically used JFK for the same reason and I was happy I did. We can let you know if our club has any time trail/races before things open. I think they are doing a half marathon in a week or two.

Lanc - Just saw your comment from last week, yeah she mentioned the jabs. I might not be there next week but I would guess the week after. I managed 5:45 or so pace on 800s which was a surprise since I havent done a workout since before Christmas. Might be back to fitness sooner rather than later.

Mn - 7 @ 7:55s

Tu - Off

Wd - 8.5 @ 8:15s

Th - 8.5 with 6x800 w/ 400rec @ 8:20s. 2:54 2:53 2:55 2:51 2:51 2:51

Fr - 6 @ 8:05s

Sa - 6 @ 7:45s

Su - Off

Total - 36

Wife has been having some lower stomach pain again so we decided to take a week off starting sunday. My foot has been no better no worse but figured I would join her in the week off while continuing to rehab. So far I'm essentially doing exactly what I told myself I wouldnt do and taking misc time off while not really running but still running some so I neither heal nor get in shape. I have been better with stationary bike (though it was a mistake without shoes the first day) and have been doing pushups daily for a few weeks now, sadly its noticeable on the arms.

Wife believes she has pain caused by the Psoas. Sub 6 made a comment a few weeks ago about how everything in that area is connected and it rang true. She has been doing exercises to strengthen that area and is also doing yoga targeting it. Hopefully it will go away for her.

-RS

RunnerSam wrote:

Wife has been having some lower stomach pain again so we decided to take a week off starting sunday. My foot has been no better no worse but figured I would join her in the week off while continuing to rehab. So far I'm essentially doing exactly what I told myself I wouldnt do and taking misc time off while not really running but still running some so I neither heal nor get in shape

Hahahaha - I love the honesty.

FYI - Grandmas sent out a release confirming that they were staying with the reduced field.

Tyler - thanks for the point about the Woodlands. The marathon is sold out, but I might be able to snag an elite bib.

But....after thinking about it, I've decided just to shut stuff down through the end of the week (pool-running and yoga/weights only) do a week or two of hills/tempo, and then start building for the Athens Marathon in Ohio in late April. I've been concerned that I might be venturing into overtraining, and some dead legs for this morning's workout supported that.

When I have a nagging sense that I should be taking a break, and taking a break sounds appealing, it's time to shut stuff down and take a break.

dw - Smart move with the shut down.

An interesting situation...opinions welcome...I just got accepted as an elite participant with comped entry for Myrtle Beach 2021, which will now be held on May 1 (not Mar. 6). Very happy to be invited to this race...but at the same time May weather in South Carolina...well...kinda scares the heck outta me. A shorter distance would not give me much concern, but this is a marathon. Based upon my training and how I have been feeling thus far this winter, I will be going for a PR.

What now?

I’ve been terrible about comments. Lately this forum crashes my desktop browser and turns my phone into a radiator.

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HHW - With your progression over the past couple years I’m looking forward to why this direction can get you to.

OR - Strong running on Saturday. Hope a spring marathon works out for you. The average low in Myrtle Beach that time of year is around 60, so if they start early enough it might not be too bad. Maybe not too different from Boston 2019? Trying to remember what early May in Columbia was typically like, and mornings weren’t too bad, but I wasn’t running marathons.

Tyler - Great solo effort. Boardwalks and such always make me nervous.

SC - Hard to not lose weight with 80 mile weeks.

Darkwave - The pockets of wildlife in parts of the city and inner suburbs have always amazed me. Solid long run, even if you’re pulling back for a bit.

Jewbacca - Hopefully it’s a warning sign and not something serious yet.

CArunner12 - That’s great to hit a PR after so many years. (I had an over 10-year span without a PR until 2019.) We have very similar 5000m and road 10k bests, although I’m nowhere near those now.

outsiderunner wrote:

An interesting situation...opinions welcome...I just got accepted as an elite participant with comped entry for Myrtle Beach 2021, which will now be held on May 1 (not Mar. 6). Very happy to be invited to this race...but at the same time May weather in South Carolina...well...kinda scares the heck outta me. A shorter distance would not give me much concern, but this is a marathon. Based upon my training and how I have been feeling thus far this winter, I will be going for a PR.

What now?

Sounds like you have two options...

1. Race it & let the chips fall where they may

2. Don't race it & pack up your chips for another day

If it seems like Option 2 is more appealing to you due to the prospective weather, look for another marathon that's not in the South around the same time. Or, if you really want to race on March 6 or so - and don't mind flying/traveling - look southward. You could probably get an elite entry to The Woodlands Marathon, even though they're sold out of regular bibs. Louisiana is also that weekend and looking to go ahead. Both are fast courses.

Sub 6:00 wrote:SC - Hard to not lose weight with 80 mile weeks.

The trouble is, I eat and drink now like I’m running 100 mile weeks. C’est la vie.

I don’t nearly post as much as I used to or as much as I should, but I have to say that I admire the simplicity and consistency of your 70 mile week system. Posting your paces and the weather and the birds you encounter... that makes for a pretty cool running diary.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Sub 6:00 wrote:SC - Hard to not lose weight with 80 mile weeks.

The trouble is, I eat and drink now like I’m running 100 mile weeks. C’est la vie.

I don’t nearly post as much as I used to or as much as I should, but I have to say that I admire the simplicity and consistency of your 70 mile week system. Posting your paces and the weather and the birds you encounter... that makes for a pretty cool running diary.

I think he should post pics of almost a year without a haircut...... having met sub 6 .. I smell a skullet. Jessie Ventura style

Hope everybody's doing well. Late in the week, but thought I'd contribute a few comments (like Sub 6, I've been having quite a bit of trouble with the site lately):

HHW: Going to be fun to follow your training with Mr. Jenkins. Nice work with the Mona fartlek – that seems like a tricky one to get the hang of. Is part of the goal there to progress the pace/intensity as you shorten the efforts (I think I’ve seen people talk about moving from something like HM to something like 3k/mile pace)?

VN: More solid winter miles.

Stone: Trying to guesstimate: with the pacing you’re doing, it looks like you’re ending up with a decent amount of volume in that “steady” zone – faster than easy but slower than or just approaching MP? With Mrs. Stone’s training, I would be curious to hear more about how you’re approaching things with an athlete who is hitting best-ever workouts that far out from a goal race. It’s great in terms of building fitness, but seems like it could require some thoughtful planning in terms of peaking (which I’m sure you’re doing).

Sub 6: Putting in the miles. Cool to see the eagle! Birds seem to be hunkered down a bit here with the recent cold snap, but I did see a couple of deer this week.

OR: Looks like you’re feeling pretty strong. Still liking the 5/2 approach?

RRR: Solid week. Smart not to get into racing that third mile.

Mike: Hope your travel and altitude adjustment have gone/been going smoothly.

lurker: Solid week with some good work in there.

Viking: Good to hear the legs are coming around. Picking up on our conversation about migrating hip injuries: one thing I have found for myself is that what is happening with my hips seems to have a lot to do with what is happening to my feet. Like, if I pay attention to getting a little “spring” in my foot action, even when I’m not going fast (fast in relative terms, of course…), that tends to keep my hip action cleaner and that seems to help keep the hip issues at bay. Whereas if I’m not getting that little bit of spring in my step, whether it’s due to fatigue or getting sloppy with my form, my hip action gets more grindy and that seems to cause a lot more stress.

jmar: Sounds like a couple of solid weeks.

get it faster: Good consistency – sounds like a smart approach to winter training.

ZM: Keeping it strong.

GNR: Ouch – hope the knee has come around!

darkwave: Smart decision to adjust your target if you were starting to feel a bit frayed. I find that training through the winter can be tricky in terms of keeping an eye on my energy level.

rucker: Sorry (if not exactly surprised) to hear about the races being postponed. Working on base is not a bad place to be in the winter.

jewbacca: Hope that was just a temporary flare-up.

Tyler: Congrats on the victory and not getting eaten by the bridge. Sounds like a fun and well-run race!

CArunner: Congrats on the PR and welcome to the thread.

Lanc: Very solid week indeed.

Sam: Hope both you and your wife are running healthy again soon. About the foot issue: I have sometimes found that taping the arch can help that kind of thing settle down. (Had a lot of foot problems for a number of years after mine got rearranged by a Yugo.)

gfmah - Yes, still liking the 2/5 approach. Though the wind and cold were so insane yesterday that I took an extra day off...did not want to go out in that in the dark. So, I am feeling guilty about it now, but I am readying myself to go out here soon, in more of the same, but at least it will be in daylight. Perhaps I can make it up on Sunday, but the forecast is for big snow starting in the AM...

going faster miles an hour wrote:

Viking: Good to hear the legs are coming around. Picking up on our conversation about migrating hip injuries: one thing I have found for myself is that what is happening with my hips seems to have a lot to do with what is happening to my feet. Like, if I pay attention to getting a little “spring” in my foot action, even when I’m not going fast (fast in relative terms, of course…), that tends to keep my hip action cleaner and that seems to help keep the hip issues at bay. Whereas if I’m not getting that little bit of spring in my step, whether it’s due to fatigue or getting sloppy with my form, my hip action gets more grindy and that seems to cause a lot more stress.

You know what man? I think you are onto something there with "springing" off your feet. That just reminded me of my little experiment with the "Easy Interval Method" which was in a book I read by Klass Lok. He wrote about that "springiness" in the book and my legs honestly never felt better than that time period, thinking back on it. I ended up abandoning the method simply because I just flat out love steady running with the same passion that OR has for rocking progression runs. Maybe I should work SOME of that back in (once or twice a week) to encourage that "spring". I think Klass referred to it as "reactivity".

Almost all of the niggles I can think of that I've had were either on abnormally slow runs or during periods of massively pushing the volume/effort beyond recommended. Stryd keeps track of training load and it was scoring my past the "Cautionary" level in their running load balance scoresheet, basically warning me to back off a bit which I naturally did not do.

OR - It will certainly be interesting to see what you decide to do. Rooting for you in any account.

Stone - Funny that you mention the weight issues vs mileage. I tend to put on the most weight when I do get the volume up to around 100 in a week. Rather than put an actual mileage number on it, I think I have a tendency to (and I'm guessing others) wayyyy overeat and drink whenever I'm pushing my volume well beyond what my body is used to. I tend to lose the most weight when I'm actually running a good intensity on a daily basis at a volume that I'm comfortable with. I don't know how that translates to others though as we are all different.

going faster miles an hour wrote:

HHW: Going to be fun to follow your training with Mr. Jenkins. Nice work with the Mona fartlek – that seems like a tricky one to get the hang of. Is part of the goal there to progress the pace/intensity as you shorten the efforts (I think I’ve seen people talk about moving from something like HM to something like 3k/mile pace)?

My goal honestly is to run the on segments at 5k pace (and maybe a bit faster as they get shorter) and the off segments at prescribed "easy tempo" pace (6-6:10 for me). I failed in this go-around given my on segments actually got slower as the workout progressed and my off segments were like 6:30 pace all-in. Goal for the next round is to keep the off segments closer to 6:10-6:20 and to start a bit slower and try to dial up the pace. Overall, I would generally speaking like to cover more distance each time I do it.

Sub 6:00 wrote:

OR - Strong running on Saturday. Hope a spring marathon works out for you. The average low in Myrtle Beach that time of year is around 60, so if they start early enough it might not be too bad. Maybe not too different from Boston 2019? Trying to remember what early May in Columbia was typically like, and mornings weren’t too bad, but I wasn’t running marathons.

Sub-6:00 & OR - I spend a lot of time in Columbia, about 50% of my time or more at this point. I'm from VA, so a good approximation for OR as well. Raced here last March pre-shutdown and weather was great, high 40s at race start up to high 50s by the finish. I left the area for VA late spring and didn't come back until Memorial Day. VA had been colder (40s and 50s), and when I got back down to SC the humidity absolutely kicked my can the first few days. The weather is already starting to trend warmer! The other night it was 73 and humid when I got out to run just before sunset..

rucker - Thanks for the info...yeah, just what I had thought...hot as hell in SC...