Tired of Being Bad: Another Training Thread

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  • Flavian
    registered
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 9:59am CST
    re: NERunner53
    Forum Index
    NERunner53 wrote:
    I'm ok with your easy days easy. Anybody saying you have to run X pace is off imo. You have to run what feels right to you & what gets you ready for your next workout.

    With that being said, you have plenty of speed. Why not train for the 800-1600 & be a mid-d guy? Everyone tries to rush to the longer stuff.

    If you do want to work on your 5k & up, you need more miles and you need to get more comfortable with what your tempo paces should be. I can't touch your 4 & 8 but train for the half & full & do tempo work in the 5:30-5:50 range with a 16-flat 5k & with years of decently high mileage. You shouldn't be running 6:00+ pace for tempos with that kind of speed. You just need to develop at the longer stuff. It'll come with mileage but who knows maybe you could run 1:49 someday for the 8.


    So my 400 and 800 times were from my Junior year of high school (about 4 years ago) where my coach had me run a lot of 800's because I could consistently run 2:04-2:05 for our 4x800. I was very weak muscular wise and just had terrible form so my coaches didn't think I'd be a good 4x4, 800 guy. The online coach I ended up working with last year didn't think my speed was good enough to focus on (our goal was to walk onto my college team). I think my speed was okay last year but we never ran any speed workouts because our goal was a 15:30 5k. Currently I don't have the speed I used to (probably because I haven't done any true speed work in like a year). I'm definitely not opposed to developing my speed as a mid-d guy but I'm not exactly sure how to structure my training to do so.
  • Flavian
    registered
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 10:07am CST
    re: Zante
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    So ideally for this spring I should choose to focus on say 800/1500 or 3200/5000? Is it too late to focus on the 800/1500 if my training hasn't focused on much speed so far? I'm very open into focusing on 800/1500 if it might lean more towards my strength. If my speed isn't where it was in 2017 because I haven't focused on speed would that change your feeling on focusing on mid-d?

    Also do you have any recommendations on a plan to follow for focusing mid-d? Or even just some general workouts or lifts/drills I should focus on? I'm not very familiar with how to train speed.
  • The Wizard JS
    registered
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 2:59pm CST
    re: Flavian
    Forum Index

    Well......a 53 at 400 is very similar as I myself did and I ran a 14:20 at 5000m. Contact me in private if you want to, and we can sort it out. My official email ; [email protected]

    -Welcome to magic online coaching-
  • qwgeg
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 3:11pm CST
    re: The Wizard JS
    Forum Index
    The Wizard JS wrote:
    Well......a 53 at 400 is very similar as I myself did and I ran a 14:20 at 5000m. Contact me in private if you want to, and we can sort it out. My official email ; [email protected]

    -Welcome to magic online coaching-


    OP, contact Jan Stensson (JS) if you want, I am not telling you not to. But beware of his claims.
    You can find out more about the man, his training and his "claims" here:

    https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10353706
  • Rocky Shores Ahead!
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 3:15pm CST
    re: qwgeg
    Forum Index

    Don't go anywhere near JS. He's the Swedish narcissistic version of the Sirens.
  • Zante
    registered
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 4:09pm CST
    re: Flavian
    Forum Index
    Flavian wrote:
    So ideally for this spring I should choose to focus on say 800/1500 or 3200/5000? Is it too late to focus on the 800/1500 if my training hasn't focused on much speed so far? I'm very open into focusing on 800/1500 if it might lean more towards my strength. If my speed isn't where it was in 2017 because I haven't focused on speed would that change your feeling on focusing on mid-d?

    Also do you have any recommendations on a plan to follow for focusing mid-d? Or even just some general workouts or lifts/drills I should focus on? I'm not very familiar with how to train speed.


    I would familiarize myself with Rubio's Middle Distance Guide to learn about mid-D training. It's probably the best resource I've found for strength-based middle-distance training. If I was going to be conservative, I would do the fall buildup with some adjustments (don't do the Wake Forest workout, and do the Adams State workout on flat terrain and limit it to 1K reps). That way you can develop your aerobic strength and basic speed and have the ability to race a 1500 if need be while being in peak 5K shape.

    https://img.runningwarehouse.com/pdf/middle_distance_guide.pdf

    For lifting and drills, Dathan Ritzenhein did a video with Gatorade that I think is a pretty good introductory layout of drills:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULwtgZA5wAE

    And Portland PACE, the physical therapy and strength coaches that work with Pete Julian's group (formerly the NOP), put out a 6-week strength and conditioning program that works really well as an introductory program if scaled out across months. The program is free, but you need to create an account to access the page.

    https://portlandpacenetwork.com/rg-6-week-strength-conditioning-program-for-runners/
  • Flavian
    registered
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 4:30pm CST
    re: qwgeg
    Forum Index
    qwgeg wrote:
    The Wizard JS wrote:
    Well......a 53 at 400 is very similar as I myself did and I ran a 14:20 at 5000m. Contact me in private if you want to, and we can sort it out. My official email ; [email protected]

    -Welcome to magic online coaching-


    OP, contact Jan Stensson (JS) if you want, I am not telling you not to. But beware of his claims.
    You can find out more about the man, his training and his "claims" here:

    https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10353706


    I've read many threads about JS before haha. The last one I read like 100's of post for was the guy who was trying to run 2:20 in his first marathon but trained half the year on a ship treadmill and then admitted to using Russian doping after like 8 months.

    Part of me is curious to see if I could guinea pig JS's coaching/training and see where it goes. A lot of times people claimed the people following JS's coaching weren't real or didn't improve but maybe this would be a way for me to either show if it works or not?
  • Flavian
    registered
    1 week ago 02/11/2021 4:38pm CST
    re: Zante
    Forum Index
    Zante wrote:
    Flavian wrote:
    So ideally for this spring I should choose to focus on say 800/1500 or 3200/5000? Is it too late to focus on the 800/1500 if my training hasn't focused on much speed so far? I'm very open into focusing on 800/1500 if it might lean more towards my strength. If my speed isn't where it was in 2017 because I haven't focused on speed would that change your feeling on focusing on mid-d?

    Also do you have any recommendations on a plan to follow for focusing mid-d? Or even just some general workouts or lifts/drills I should focus on? I'm not very familiar with how to train speed.


    I would familiarize myself with Rubio's Middle Distance Guide to learn about mid-D training. It's probably the best resource I've found for strength-based middle-distance training. If I was going to be conservative, I would do the fall buildup with some adjustments (don't do the Wake Forest workout, and do the Adams State workout on flat terrain and limit it to 1K reps). That way you can develop your aerobic strength and basic speed and have the ability to race a 1500 if need be while being in peak 5K shape.

    https://img.runningwarehouse.com/pdf/middle_distance_guide.pdf

    For lifting and drills, Dathan Ritzenhein did a video with Gatorade that I think is a pretty good introductory layout of drills:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULwtgZA5wAE

    And Portland PACE, the physical therapy and strength coaches that work with Pete Julian's group (formerly the NOP), put out a 6-week strength and conditioning program that works really well as an introductory program if scaled out across months. The program is free, but you need to create an account to access the page.

    https://portlandpacenetwork.com/rg-6-week-strength-conditioning-program-for-runners/


    This is some really good stuff. Thanks a ton!
    I wish there were more opportunities to race but it looks like end of April/May there may be a couple track meets open to individual entries that I can enter. Is the Fall buildup you mention The XC Aerobic Endurance Phase and the XC Race Preparation Phase? Or is it just one of them? I think I have about 2 months and a week or so until the April track meet I would plan to race in. But if I can find something in May/Early June I could aim to peak there.
  • Zante
    registered
    1 week ago 02/12/2021 11:46am CST
    re: Flavian
    Forum Index
    Flavian wrote:

    This is some really good stuff. Thanks a ton!
    I wish there were more opportunities to race but it looks like end of April/May there may be a couple track meets open to individual entries that I can enter. Is the Fall buildup you mention The XC Aerobic Endurance Phase and the XC Race Preparation Phase? Or is it just one of them? I think I have about 2 months and a week or so until the April track meet I would plan to race in. But if I can find something in May/Early June I could aim to peak there.


    Yeah so the Fall buildup would be everything from XC Aerobic Endurance onward until it hits Club Nationals. It sounds like you're decently adjusted to the point you're at, so you should be able to decide independently which point you want to start out at. August is really a transition phase from a post-season break.

    There are a lot of different approaches that I could talk about that would probably be more specific to your situation, maybe others can chime in on that if they want. I just wouldn't feel confident sending you down a path less carved out than this one.
  • Flavian
    registered
    1 week ago 02/14/2021 8:53pm CST
    re: Flavian
    Forum Index
    Feb 8 - Feb 14 = 55 miles
    Monday - 4 miles avg 8:00
    Tuesday - 8.6 miles avg 6:58 [2 mile wu, 5x2min on @5:40, 1 min jog, 6:29, 6:30, 2 mile cd]
    Wednesday - 10 miles avg 7:35
    Thursday - 6 miles avg 7:45
    Friday - 7.7 miles avg 6:35 [10 min wu, 2x2 miles w/5 min jog (5:56, 5:53), (5:56, 5:51), 10 min cd]
    Saturday - 6 miles avg 8:00
    Sunday - 13.1 miles avg 7:08 [last 3 miles 6:06, 6:29, 6:30]

    Weather has been bad here all week and I felt pretty tired the first half of the week. Tuesday workout went poorly as I wanted to do 10x2 minutes but I just had a bad day and cut it at 5 and did some steady miles. Friday workout was run with a partner and I just followed what her workout goal was. Felt really smooth and in control running 5:50ish pace so pretty happy with that compared to my previous tempos. Decent long run to finish things off may do 14 miles for the LR next week.
  • Flavian
    registered
    1 week ago 02/17/2021 9:56am CST
    re: Flavian
    Forum Index

    Might run a time trial in 10 days and was wondering what you guys think I should try to run. Is something like 10:40 reasonable or should I aim for something more like sub 11?
  • Flavian
    registered
    2 days ago 02/22/2021 2:03pm CST
    re: Flavian
    Forum Index
    Feb 15 - Feb 21 = 40 miles
    Monday - 4 miles avg 8:00
    Tuesday - 4.5 avg 7:23
    Wednesday - 5.5 miles [2 mile wu (6:29, 6:20), 2x6x200 @30-32 1 min rest 4 min between sets, 2 mile cd]
    Thursday - 10 avg 7:30 (treadmill 1.0%)
    Friday - 5.5 avg 7:30
    Saturday - off
    Sunday - 10 avg avg 7:03

    Snowed and iced almost everyday this week so I struggled to get good runs in. Also just generally didn't have a great week. First speed workout I've done in like 2 years probably. Not the best week of training but just gonna get back on it this week hopefully.
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