RunRagged wrote:
Tatar wrote:
ALL feminists: "we're going to do something about gender roles in society to liberate women"
Transfeminist: "we won't use gendered pronouns anymore."
Trans-exclusionary feminist: "no keep those."
Transfeminist: "gendered clothing?"
Trans-exclusionary feminist: "no, that's ok."
Transfeminist: "segregated bathrooms?"
Trans-exclusionary feminist: "no those are important."
Transfeminist: "so we're going to do something about the gender binary, yeah?We're going to attack the idea that gender is intrinsically linked to one's anatomy, and we're going to boost the visibility of trans and intersex people, who face the most violent consequences of the sex and gender binaries - yes?"
Trans-exclusionary feminist: "no."
Huh? I don't think you know your feminist history. At all.
The story of feminism you're telling sounds like the version from the planet known as Bizarro World.
Feminists of the first and second-wave did not use the word "gender" often or at all, nor was it our focus. That term in the Anglophone world only emerged and came into wide use fairly recently, in response to feminism and as a way of undermining it and undoing the gains feminism had achieved.
Feminists spoke, still speak of and are focused on sex, sexism, sex stereotypes, sex discrimination sexual harassment, sexual violence, sex crimes, sexual objectification, sex abuse of children, physical sex differences, sex imbalances in pay, sex roles, sex disparities in disease prevalence, trajectory, treatment outcomes, mortality and so on.
Feminists did not say "we're going to do something about gender roles in society to liberate women."
We said and say we oppose sexism, sex discrimination against females, male dominance and sex stereotyping of both males and females.
By contrast, transgenderism and genderology are built on sexism and sex stereotypes. Take away the sex stereotypes and the sexism, and the whole edifice - and entire artifice - of being trans falls apart.
Feminists say a woman is someone with a female body, and any type of personality and any type personal style.
Transgenderists say a woman is someone with either a male or female body, and a "feminine" personality and a "girly" style.
You have your imaginary "transfeminist" say:"so we're going to do something about the gender binary, yeah?We're going to attack the idea that gender is intrinsically linked to one's anatomy..."
But actually, the trans position is to attack the idea that sex is intrinsically linked to one's anatomy. Trans ideologues say that "some women have penises" and "men can have babies." And that "a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman" regardless of their sex.
Feminists think this is all balderdash, utter bollocks. And we think it's sexist and misogynistic to boot.
Moreover, the trans position is to downplay biological sex differences, and to deny that sex and sex differences matter much - or at all. Many trans ideologues go further, claiming "there is no such thing as biological sex."
You display this sort of thinking when you scoff at "segregated bathrooms" as if these came about coz of "the gender binary." Actually, they came about coz males and females have very different urinary anatomy which means we pee completely differently - and coz compared to males females have many additional bodily functions - menstruation, pregnancy, miscarriage, menopausal flooding, lactation, injuries left over from childbirth, etc - that we attend to in toilet facilities, and which make us need to use toilet facilities more often and for longer lengths of time each visit than males.
Another reason there's sex segregation in communal toilets outside the home and a few other spheres - locker rooms, fitting rooms, shelters, rape refuges, prisons, hospital wards - is that when attending to intimate bodily functions, both male and female people tend to desire a degree of privacy from members of the opposite sex at school, at work, and in public settings. Given that most people are heterosexual, sex segregated facilities provide for privacy, dignity and peace of mind for both sexes.
Moreover, coz our basic nature as a species, most human males really like to look at female bodies when partially or entirely unclothed - and many boys and men find it difficult not to "check out" or even openly ogle females in their purview in ways that females often find intrusive and even upsetting. Therefore, it's to the advantage of both sexes to keep them apart in certain limited circumstances when intimate body parts will be exposed. Finally, a small number of men are creeps and sexual predators who pose a real risk to female people, especially in enclosed places where the female people are made especially vulnerable by the fact that using a toilet to pee or deal with menstruation requires us to bare our vulvas and bottoms and sit on a toilet with our pants around our ankles.
Feminists aren't supporters of the "gender binary," which really is just shorthand for two rigid boxes full of sex stereotypes, one for males the other for females. Feminists want to get rid of these boxes and all the sex stereotypes in them altogether coz we think they are prisons that restrict and chafe at us all.
Feminists are actually the ones who don't care if boys play with dolls and men want to wear dresses and lipstick, and girls love Lego and women wear coveralls and combat boots. Trans ideologues are the ones who are aghast when a little boy likes pink and a little girl want to be a truck driver - and it's trans ideologues who are sending these poor kids off to "gender clinics" to be put on the trans train.
Feminists think everyone should be able to choose whatever toys, clothing, hairstyles, grooming customs, hobbies, pursuits, mannerisms, roles, jobs and so on that fit our individual personalities. But we also think that whatever our choices and preferences are, none of them reflect or change anyone's sex.