Open everything up so that our economy bounces back. He is smarter than most think. Most older people vote Republican anyway.
Open everything up so that our economy bounces back. He is smarter than most think. Most older people vote Republican anyway.
energeticlotuseater wrote:
trashcan wrote:
We should do things differently because it’s killing approximately 3000 people a day. That makes it decidedly distinct from any flu in the past 100 years. Also, we can’t get the vaccine into people in a timely manner
What should the Biden administration do? So far they’ve done nothing too differently from Trump.
I was saying treat differently than a bad flu in response to LFH. I admit I was thinking in the standards of the last 30 years, not Spanish Flu.
It is incredibly early to determine weather Biden’s policies will make a difference. He did just invoke the defense production act.
If Biden can get vaccination rates up to even 0.1% of the population per day that would be. Or even coax states like California to actually give out doses that would be a huge shift from Trump. CA currenty sits on 2mil+ doses waiting to be given.
trashcan wrote:
energeticlotuseater wrote:
What should the Biden administration do? So far they’ve done nothing too differently from Trump.
I was saying treat differently than a bad flu in response to LFH. I admit I was thinking in the standards of the last 30 years, not Spanish Flu.
It is incredibly early to determine weather Biden’s policies will make a difference. He did just invoke the defense production act.
Biden is throwing more money around so certainly that will help people who lost jobs due to COVID.
However, whether Trump or Biden is in the White House this virus is going to run its course until we reach herd immunity one way or another. The president simply doesn’t have the power to enforce any kind of mandatory social distancing or mask wearing scheme on a national scale. Even if he did have the power he wouldn’t be able to really enforce it on a country as big & stubborn as the US.
This is just the hard reality.
energeticlotuseater wrote:
trashcan wrote:
We should do things differently because it’s killing approximately 3000 people a day. That makes it decidedly distinct from any flu in the past 100 years. Also, we can’t get the vaccine into people in a timely manner
What should the Biden administration do? So far they’ve done nothing too differently from Trump.
1.) Trump did not dictate state policies
2.) States that had more restrictions generally have had more deaths
3.) It should be obvious that what we are doing may not be working
4.) We have a vaccine now; many of them
5.) The worst flu outbreaks were worse
6.) There is zero indications that shutting down businesses, restriciting businesses into failure and shutting schools is doing anything at all
Why would we keep doing unevidenced destructive things that clearly not helping and possibly making things worse. I am not talking about mask, you can debate that all you want buy masks don't make people poor and ruin kids education. Shutting commerce down and closing schools and telling people to stay locked up at home is a failed strategy. An utter failure, while real quarantines of the sick, pushing vaccines as much as possible and shutting borders have always proven to be effective; that should be the focus along with making an extra effort to protect the elderly. We should also remove the incentive to report as covid and remove any liability to hospitals for a missed diagnosis as these things promote overreporting and increased fear.
energeticlotuseater wrote:
What should the Biden administration do? So far they’ve done nothing too differently from Trump.
Clear communication would be a great start.
Trump admin was so incompetent that nobody knew how many vaccines doses to expect, etc, makes planning impossible.
More economic relief so people don't feel compelled to work when they are sick/exposed is also good.
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
1.) Trump did not dictate state policies
2.) States that had more restrictions generally have had more deaths
3.) It should be obvious that what we are doing may not be working
4.) We have a vaccine now; many of them
5.) The worst flu outbreaks were worse
6.) There is zero indications that shutting down businesses, restriciting businesses into failure and shutting schools is doing anything at all
Why would we keep doing unevidenced destructive things that clearly not helping and possibly making things worse. I am not talking about mask, you can debate that all you want buy masks don't make people poor and ruin kids education. Shutting commerce down and closing schools and telling people to stay locked up at home is a failed strategy. An utter failure, while real quarantines of the sick, pushing vaccines as much as possible and shutting borders have always proven to be effective; that should be the focus along with making an extra effort to protect the elderly. We should also remove the incentive to report as covid and remove any liability to hospitals for a missed diagnosis as these things promote overreporting and increased fear.
It seems a majority of public transmissions happen indoors in confined spaces. Keeping dining, bars, and other places of gathering closed is very, very smart.
Schools should be opened ASAP but cases and deaths are still way out of control in the USA.
"Extra effort to protect the elderly" is a total red herring. How do you do that? Well, you make sure the people they come in contact with don't have COVID. How do you do that? Social distancing.
^Nobody has come up with a effective strategy for "protecting the elderly" besides this. The Barrington Declaration was hilarious because it pretended like there was some magical way to protect the elderly that didn't disrupt society. Comical from 'academics.'
Lastly, what is this sudden obsession with liability for missing a COVID diagnosis? There is no special risk there nor is there any "incentive" to overreport COVID. This has been debunked many times. You need to provide evidence for these dumb statements.
1.) Trump could've provide funding and guidance/coordination 2.) Restrictions follow on from bad outbreaks - circular logic either way. 3.) Doing nothing hasn't worked either. Some things do work see: China, Taiwan, SK, Japan, NZ, Aus. 4.) It's entirely under the federal umbrella to coordinate a "warp speed" vaccination campaign - hope Biden can do it 5.) Only the Spanish Flu was worse 6.) It worked in China, Hong Kong and Singapore.
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
energeticlotuseater wrote:
What should the Biden administration do? So far they’ve done nothing too differently from Trump.
1.) Trump did not dictate state policies
2.) States that had more restrictions generally have had more deaths
3.) It should be obvious that what we are doing may not be working
4.) We have a vaccine now; many of them
5.) The worst flu outbreaks were worse
6.) There is zero indications that shutting down businesses, restriciting businesses into failure and shutting schools is doing anything at all
Why would we keep doing unevidenced destructive things that clearly not helping and possibly making things worse. I am not talking about mask, you can debate that all you want buy masks don't make people poor and ruin kids education. Shutting commerce down and closing schools and telling people to stay locked up at home is a failed strategy. An utter failure, while real quarantines of the sick, pushing vaccines as much as possible and shutting borders have always proven to be effective; that should be the focus along with making an extra effort to protect the elderly. We should also remove the incentive to report as covid and remove any liability to hospitals for a missed diagnosis as these things promote overreporting and increased fear.
Sweden and the UK both initially tried the "protect the elderly but let it rip" approach and it failed. Obviously it would be ideal if only those who were at risk had their lives affected but, like you said, there is no way to do it in current society.
Harambe wrote:
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
1.) Trump did not dictate state policies
2.) States that had more restrictions generally have had more deaths
3.) It should be obvious that what we are doing may not be working
4.) We have a vaccine now; many of them
5.) The worst flu outbreaks were worse
6.) There is zero indications that shutting down businesses, restriciting businesses into failure and shutting schools is doing anything at all
Why would we keep doing unevidenced destructive things that clearly not helping and possibly making things worse. I am not talking about mask, you can debate that all you want buy masks don't make people poor and ruin kids education. Shutting commerce down and closing schools and telling people to stay locked up at home is a failed strategy. An utter failure, while real quarantines of the sick, pushing vaccines as much as possible and shutting borders have always proven to be effective; that should be the focus along with making an extra effort to protect the elderly. We should also remove the incentive to report as covid and remove any liability to hospitals for a missed diagnosis as these things promote overreporting and increased fear.
It seems a majority of public transmissions happen indoors in confined spaces. Keeping dining, bars, and other places of gathering closed is very, very smart.
Schools should be opened ASAP but cases and deaths are still way out of control in the USA.
"Extra effort to protect the elderly" is a total red herring. How do you do that? Well, you make sure the people they come in contact with don't have COVID. How do you do that? Social distancing.
^Nobody has come up with a effective strategy for "protecting the elderly" besides this. The Barrington Declaration was hilarious because it pretended like there was some magical way to protect the elderly that didn't disrupt society. Comical from 'academics.'
Lastly, what is this sudden obsession with liability for missing a COVID diagnosis? There is no special risk there nor is there any "incentive" to overreport COVID. This has been debunked many times. You need to provide evidence for these dumb statements.
2600 bro wrote:
1.) Trump could've provide funding and guidance/coordination
2.) Restrictions follow on from bad outbreaks - circular logic either way.
3.) Doing nothing hasn't worked either. Some things do work see: China, Taiwan, SK, Japan, NZ, Aus.
4.) It's entirely under the federal umbrella to coordinate a "warp speed" vaccination campaign - hope Biden can do it
5.) Only the Spanish Flu was worse
6.) It worked in China, Hong Kong and Singapore.
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
1.) Trump did not dictate state policies
2.) States that had more restrictions generally have had more deaths
3.) It should be obvious that what we are doing may not be working
4.) We have a vaccine now; many of them
5.) The worst flu outbreaks were worse
6.) There is zero indications that shutting down businesses, restriciting businesses into failure and shutting schools is doing anything at all
Why would we keep doing unevidenced destructive things that clearly not helping and possibly making things worse. I am not talking about mask, you can debate that all you want buy masks don't make people poor and ruin kids education. Shutting commerce down and closing schools and telling people to stay locked up at home is a failed strategy. An utter failure, while real quarantines of the sick, pushing vaccines as much as possible and shutting borders have always proven to be effective; that should be the focus along with making an extra effort to protect the elderly. We should also remove the incentive to report as covid and remove any liability to hospitals for a missed diagnosis as these things promote overreporting and increased fear.
Biden is a much better messenger than Trump, a better speaker and he comes off as more empathic- these are good qualities but they won’t stop the spread of COVID.
Let’s not think theoretically about lockdowns, let’s try to stay in reality here in the United States. Do you really think Biden has the power or even the ability to lockdown sections of the US? I don’t think he does or even will— he can’t even put into place a national mask mandate (he signed a bill requiring masks on federal property—whoop de doo). Consider how lockdowns have worked in America over the last ten months and how compliant your fellow Americans have been (not very). I know many want him to enforce a national lockdown and think it’ll be helpful but he hasn’t shown any desire to do so to my knowledge. I know I know NZ, Australia, China have been able to stop the spread- but this is the United States- there’s other cultural traits at play here, like it or not that’s the reality.
Will the federal government help in guiding the vaccination process in the states? Maybe, but I’m skeptical. The vaccination process has thus far been a bureaucratic nightmare with only about half of vaccines provided going into the arms of people. The confusion is not surprising considering something like this has never been done before. However, do I think that the an even bigger bureaucracy stepping in (the federal government) is going to drastically help “cut the red tape” and get more vaccines into peoples’ arms faster? Again, I’m skeptical.
4) we don’t have vaccines we can give to anyone who wants it. I don’t see why having an approved but inaccessible vaccine should alter our Current policy. In April/May my opinion may change
5) what flu outbreaks are you referring to and how do you come to that conclusion. Right now I have the 1919 epidemic and nothing else for its effect in the U S
6) this article below indicates that shutting down restaurants and other high risk businesses like bars and gyms slows fatality growth rates. It did not find a consistent correlation for schools and medium-to-low risk businesses. Interestingly, it didn’t find benefit in limiting gatherings from 11-100 people.
Here it is
Harambe wrote:
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
1.) Trump did not dictate state policies
2.) States that had more restrictions generally have had more deaths
3.) It should be obvious that what we are doing may not be working
4.) We have a vaccine now; many of them
5.) The worst flu outbreaks were worse
6.) There is zero indications that shutting down businesses, restriciting businesses into failure and shutting schools is doing anything at all
Why would we keep doing unevidenced destructive things that clearly not helping and possibly making things worse. I am not talking about mask, you can debate that all you want buy masks don't make people poor and ruin kids education. Shutting commerce down and closing schools and telling people to stay locked up at home is a failed strategy. An utter failure, while real quarantines of the sick, pushing vaccines as much as possible and shutting borders have always proven to be effective; that should be the focus along with making an extra effort to protect the elderly. We should also remove the incentive to report as covid and remove any liability to hospitals for a missed diagnosis as these things promote overreporting and increased fear.
It seems a majority of public transmissions happen indoors in confined spaces. Keeping dining, bars, and other places of gathering closed is very, very smart.
Schools should be opened ASAP but cases and deaths are still way out of control in the USA.
"Extra effort to protect the elderly" is a total red herring. How do you do that? Well, you make sure the people they come in contact with don't have COVID. How do you do that? Social distancing.
^Nobody has come up with a effective strategy for "protecting the elderly" besides this. The Barrington Declaration was hilarious because it pretended like there was some magical way to protect the elderly that didn't disrupt society. Comical from 'academics.'
Lastly, what is this sudden obsession with liability for missing a COVID diagnosis? There is no special risk there nor is there any "incentive" to overreport COVID. This has been debunked many times. You need to provide evidence for these dumb statements.
Everything you just stated is either an outright lie or your opinion. All comical at best.
1.) Yes, hospitals would certainly be in a heap of trouble in this day if they missed a covid death, so it is best to play it safe
2.) It is an absolute fact that medicare/medicaid pay higher for covid deaths than something like pneumonia...you are a liar
3.) Use of a ventilator is also fully supported with extra cash; you are a liar again
4.) It is very easy to keep susceptible populations more isolated with better controls with respect to who sees them and who does not. This is exactly what Denmark did during the height of the early months and may still be doing so. You may just be too dumb to be able to conceive how this can be done, or you are just a little narcissistic liar; probably both.
5.) Restaurants have not been shown to be an issue in the spread of the virus; this is just a bad assumption; so far people have been smart enough to not go out if they are sick; a courtesy that most Americans are capable of despite your arrogant disbelief. What would have be proper would have been to give the restaurant s guidance and tax incetives to takes as many measures as possible to be safe while doing what they have to do to stay afloat. Your prefernce is that the only things that matters is covid, and if a few thousands restaurants go under so be it. You feel this way because you are a well off child who is not affected by any of the restrictions so it seem easy for you to watch people suffer so you may feel safe and feel virtuous.
Nothing you have ever said has been supported by data either. Sometimes to provide some form of related data, make assumptions about it and use your assumptions to prove points. All in the end no better than any one else's opinion except you spend you r days spreading fear, that same fear is only adding to the death toll and not saving anyone or anything other than your ego.
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
Everything you just stated is either an outright lie or your opinion. All comical at best.
1.) Yes, hospitals would certainly be in a heap of trouble in this day if they missed a covid death, so it is best to play it safe
2.) It is an absolute fact that medicare/medicaid pay higher for covid deaths than something like pneumonia...you are a liar
3.) Use of a ventilator is also fully supported with extra cash; you are a liar again
4.) It is very easy to keep susceptible populations more isolated with better controls with respect to who sees them and who does not. This is exactly what Denmark did during the height of the early months and may still be doing so. You may just be too dumb to be able to conceive how this can be done, or you are just a little narcissistic liar; probably both.
5.) Restaurants have not been shown to be an issue in the spread of the virus; this is just a bad assumption; so far people have been smart enough to not go out if they are sick; a courtesy that most Americans are capable of despite your arrogant disbelief. What would have be proper would have been to give the restaurant s guidance and tax incetives to takes as many measures as possible to be safe while doing what they have to do to stay afloat. Your prefernce is that the only things that matters is covid, and if a few thousands restaurants go under so be it. You feel this way because you are a well off child who is not affected by any of the restrictions so it seem easy for you to watch people suffer so you may feel safe and feel virtuous.
Nothing you have ever said has been supported by data either. Sometimes to provide some form of related data, make assumptions about it and use your assumptions to prove points. All in the end no better than any one else's opinion except you spend you r days spreading fear, that same fear is only adding to the death toll and not saving anyone or anything other than your ego.
Sorry, unless you have evidence hospitals are overreporting COVID deaths/cases to defraud Medicare... I'm going to trust the health care workers dealing with this mess over an armchair speculator. Again, there is zero evidence of this, please provide some. This would be fraud and I would expect there to be whistleblowers if it were happening at an significant level.
I know of no special liability a doctor is exposed to for missing a COVID diagnosis as opposed to, say, incorrectly diagnosing COVID. I don't see the incentive to be wrong in either direction.
Denmark has had 1) a national lockdown (two, actually!) 2) limited gatherings 3) closed restaurants and bars and other indoor spaces. You proved my point -- they protected the vulnerable by... doing everything experts recommend.
Is there evidence restaurants aren't a major risk?
https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-superspreading-venues-restaurants.htmlI haven't seen any evidence, please provide. Thanks!
trashcan wrote:
4) we don’t have vaccines we can give to anyone who wants it. I don’t see why having an approved but inaccessible vaccine should alter our Current policy. In April/May my opinion may change
5) what flu outbreaks are you referring to and how do you come to that conclusion. Right now I have the 1919 epidemic and nothing else for its effect in the U S
6) this article below indicates that shutting down restaurants and other high risk businesses like bars and gyms slows fatality growth rates. It did not find a consistent correlation for schools and medium-to-low risk businesses. Interestingly, it didn’t find benefit in limiting gatherings from 11-100 people.
Here it is
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C22&q=Restaurant+closures+Covid&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3D_7g78EpOwJwJ
I skimmed through this. This is a typical model study that assumes a lot and cuts out most of the big data sets. How can you eliminate the top 5 most populous counties? Going further, it seems obvious that government impose restrictions when things are spiking, but these outbreaks always come back down shortly after. So presence of a decline is certain making it impossible to draw any legitimate connect between measures enacted prior to things coming down naturally. I have seen a few studies like this so far. They are all really stretching with assumptions and drawing correlation where correlations are likely not indicative of anything. Not saying it is not possible, but these kinds of studies are not proving much at all. There are plenty of groups out there trying to ride to wave of the pandemic to get a few cheap papers out there and citation bumps. It may also be the best we can do, but really it just screams of squeezing a data set into a position that allows you to be able to vaguely say something.
Why are they lumping strategies such as restaurant closures and no visitors to elderly homes? Obviously the latter will help, but showing the obvious does not mean the restaurant closures were part of it. Still, in all cases declines are inevitable . Also, the paper does not address any levels of significant, only that declines or rises are significant, but significantly different then what and by how much. Small minute gains are not worth devastating cost unless you are in the mindset that only reducing covid deaths matters and all other death and destruction means nothing.
Harambe wrote:
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
Everything you just stated is either an outright lie or your opinion. All comical at best.
1.) Yes, hospitals would certainly be in a heap of trouble in this day if they missed a covid death, so it is best to play it safe
2.) It is an absolute fact that medicare/medicaid pay higher for covid deaths than something like pneumonia...you are a liar
3.) Use of a ventilator is also fully supported with extra cash; you are a liar again
4.) It is very easy to keep susceptible populations more isolated with better controls with respect to who sees them and who does not. This is exactly what Denmark did during the height of the early months and may still be doing so. You may just be too dumb to be able to conceive how this can be done, or you are just a little narcissistic liar; probably both.
5.) Restaurants have not been shown to be an issue in the spread of the virus; this is just a bad assumption; so far people have been smart enough to not go out if they are sick; a courtesy that most Americans are capable of despite your arrogant disbelief. What would have be proper would have been to give the restaurant s guidance and tax incetives to takes as many measures as possible to be safe while doing what they have to do to stay afloat. Your prefernce is that the only things that matters is covid, and if a few thousands restaurants go under so be it. You feel this way because you are a well off child who is not affected by any of the restrictions so it seem easy for you to watch people suffer so you may feel safe and feel virtuous.
Nothing you have ever said has been supported by data either. Sometimes to provide some form of related data, make assumptions about it and use your assumptions to prove points. All in the end no better than any one else's opinion except you spend you r days spreading fear, that same fear is only adding to the death toll and not saving anyone or anything other than your ego.
Sorry, unless you have evidence hospitals are overreporting COVID deaths/cases to defraud Medicare... I'm going to trust the health care workers dealing with this mess over an armchair speculator. Again, there is zero evidence of this, please provide some. This would be fraud and I would expect there to be whistleblowers if it were happening at an significant level.
I know of no special liability a doctor is exposed to for missing a COVID diagnosis as opposed to, say, incorrectly diagnosing COVID. I don't see the incentive to be wrong in either direction.
Denmark has had 1) a national lockdown (two, actually!) 2) limited gatherings 3) closed restaurants and bars and other indoor spaces. You proved my point -- they protected the vulnerable by... doing everything experts recommend.
Is there evidence restaurants aren't a major risk?
https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-superspreading-venues-restaurants.htmlI haven't seen any evidence, please provide. Thanks!
Do you even read the articles citing the studies that you post:
"The findings, published today (Nov. 10) in the journal Nature, also suggest that reducing maximum occupancy at these venues may be more effective for curbing COVID-19 spread than blanket lockdowns, the authors said.
"Our work highlights that it does not have to be all or nothing," study senior author, Jure Leskovec, a computer scientist at Stanford University, told The New York Times."
Again, there is no need to shut things down. Just apply appropriate safety measures, encourage them with tax breaks, and let people survive while making efforts to be cautious and safe.
Your are a comical human, but not much common sense, just up or down for you and not many moving parts to your thoughts.
[quote]2600 bro wrote:
1.) Trump could've provide funding and guidance/coordination
2.) Restrictions follow on from bad outbreaks - circular logic either way.
3.) Doing nothing hasn't worked either. Some things do work see: China, Taiwan, SK, Japan, NZ, Aus.
4.) It's entirely under the federal umbrella to coordinate a "warp speed" vaccination campaign - hope Biden can do it
5.) Only the Spanish Flu was worse
6.) It worked in China, Hong Kong and Singapore.
[quote]Lead Foil Hat wrote:
1.) Trump did provide funding and guidance with the help of congress; in reality he provide guidance with the guidance of Anthony Fauci, actually he was pretty much in lock-step with Fauci from January on until Fauci started to get political and even then the guidance was there. Who do you think pushed the vaccine effort. Efforts to route out common drugs effective at treating covid were then stalwarted by left politicians and the media.
2.) What; no good data exists showing the restrictions are extremely beneficial at all
3.) If doing nothing, save closing the border prior to the virus arrival, produces the same bad results (compare Sweden and Italy or Spain or the UK or Belgium) then what is the point? Citing China is a joke right? You can't be stupid enough to believe the information coming out of China. The other short list of nations you provide is also a joke of a lie; these are all island nations that closed their borders...of course they have minimal outbreaks....see Denmark as ell they also closed their border very very early and actually did not have extremely harsh or prolonged "lockdowns", mostly targeted protection of the elderly, a brief school closure (2-3 weeks) and recommendations to people to try to work at home....that is a great approach actually; hey did not even promote mask citing that they were not helpful. Anyway, feel free to keep lying to yourself using a small selection of data points
4.) You are correct, and that has been underway for an entire year almost!
5.) You might be right, and even then they did not shut down many businesses...strange thing that they were able to think beyond 1-dimensional 100 years ago and some of you can't now
6.) Again, China? Really? Are you dumb? Then 2 island nations. No
You used to be more reasonable! Trump losing really mentally destroyed some of you guys.
They are having packed rocked concerts in Wuhan. You can hand wave about "China" all you want but there have zero community transmission right now. Why does Island nation status matter? The US didn't import it's COVID cases from Canada and Mexico. Think before you just spew random stuff on this board. You CAN stop the virus. It just takes early, concerted, dedicated action. Denmark is a OK example - they used a mix of strategies targeting the biggest issues: mass indoor gatherings, indoor dining, etc. But they are country smaller than the metro area I live in! (See: island nation fallacy above :D )
Lockdowns are not sustainable, I agree, they make sense when trying to get a sense of a novel infection (i.e. March). We should have much better tools for stopping this by now.
Also OWS was a success until Trump needed to step up and provide the manpower to deliver the vaccine. By then he was all consumed by the "fraud" so it's been a complete cluster ****.
We should have vaccination clinics working 24hrs a day, staffed by national guard if we must. It's a joke and at the end of the day the buck stops at the top. Biden better step up.
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
[quote]2600 bro wrote:
1.) Trump could've provide funding and guidance/coordination
2.) Restrictions follow on from bad outbreaks - circular logic either way.
3.) Doing nothing hasn't worked either. Some things do work see: China, Taiwan, SK, Japan, NZ, Aus.
4.) It's entirely under the federal umbrella to coordinate a "warp speed" vaccination campaign - hope Biden can do it
5.) Only the Spanish Flu was worse
6.) It worked in China, Hong Kong and Singapore.
[quote]Lead Foil Hat wrote:
1.) Trump did provide funding and guidance with the help of congress; in reality he provide guidance with the guidance of Anthony Fauci, actually he was pretty much in lock-step with Fauci from January on until Fauci started to get political and even then the guidance was there. Who do you think pushed the vaccine effort. Efforts to route out common drugs effective at treating covid were then stalwarted by left politicians and the media.
2.) What; no good data exists showing the restrictions are extremely beneficial at all
3.) If doing nothing, save closing the border prior to the virus arrival, produces the same bad results (compare Sweden and Italy or Spain or the UK or Belgium) then what is the point? Citing China is a joke right? You can't be stupid enough to believe the information coming out of China. The other short list of nations you provide is also a joke of a lie; these are all island nations that closed their borders...of course they have minimal outbreaks....see Denmark as ell they also closed their border very very early and actually did not have extremely harsh or prolonged "lockdowns", mostly targeted protection of the elderly, a brief school closure (2-3 weeks) and recommendations to people to try to work at home....that is a great approach actually; hey did not even promote mask citing that they were not helpful. Anyway, feel free to keep lying to yourself using a small selection of data points
4.) You are correct, and that has been underway for an entire year almost!
5.) You might be right, and even then they did not shut down many businesses...strange thing that they were able to think beyond 1-dimensional 100 years ago and some of you can't now
6.) Again, China? Really? Are you dumb? Then 2 island nations. No
In the end you can argue all you want here using small selections of island nations, or weak correlations in modeling studies, but the fact is that there is no strong set of evidence to warrant continued business shutdowns and crippling restrictions nor to keep the schools closed and without that strong evidence it is just a farcical effort and the American public is not going to put up with it much longer now that we have many vaccine rolling out and plans to have 30% of the population vaccinated over the next few months. I am sorry, but you might just have to go outside again to earn your huge salaries and your loud-mouthed fear pedestal is no longer going to be allowed to keep pushing poor people deeper into poverty, despair and even homelessness. This is the point where nations are going to just say, yep this is good enough and we have more important things and people to take care of now. At some point the whole big picture needs to return to our view, and soon before it becomes too late for too many. Yes there will still be risks going forward, but life is a balance of risks; this might be hard to accept for you but thankfully it will likely not be your choice.
Only Snowflakes Melt in Masks wrote:
Listen up COVID deniers: if your position is a) that the shutdown of much of society is a pain in the butt and you wish it would stop and b) that wearing masks is dumb and somehow infringes on your liberty, it might be time to wake up. That mindset is so contradictory. If you are upset about society being disrupted by COVID, why don't you wake up and encourage mask wearing and social distancing? Those are the easy methods to get rid of COVID and get society back to normal.
To complain about society being shutdown and also complain about wearing masks is exactly the thing that is keeping us from going back to normal.
So, as yourself, which do you dislike more? The social limitations of society being shutdown, or wearing a thin mask? If wearing a masks is really more disagreeable, then quit complaining about things being shutdown. If the shutdown is worse, then put on a mask and help us get back to normal.
This guy gets it, 425,000 dead, it’s time to start taking this seriously which many are not.
So true. 70% of Americans are overweight and have made no effort to do anything about it. If they all had lost 30 pounds last spring, we could have cut Covid deaths in half and we could have saved millions of lives in the coming years due to other causes.