Ole Miss posted video of tempo 8 and 5 mile run but it was more like a race

Doesn't look like they are training in Mississippi

TT or Tempo wrote:

18 minute 5k girls tempo ' s at a 5:40 to 50 pace for 5miles?

Why not? Nicole Rice ran a 17:42 at that XC race. She is also a 16:52 5k runner. Doesn't 5:40-5:50 sound spot on for a tempo run for a 16:52 runner?

Stolen off what I wrote on Youtube. Think ya'll will find this interesting. This is referencing two dudes in the video.

Case study 1: Jamie Witmer. Witmer is a 26 minute 8k guy (per tfrrs.org) and a 4:20 mid miler. His 8k time is roughly 5:12 p/mile. So he is running essentially 15 seconds off 8k pace on the back end of a long run on what appears to be relatively hilly dirt roads. This dude is WAY overextending. Take his heart rate after. Wouldn't be surprised if this was an all out effort for him.

Case study 2: Ben Savino. Savino is a 14:30 5k dude (per tfrrs.org) and a 3:58 1500 guy (approx. 4:18 for full mile). His 5k pace is 4:41 p/mile. This means he is running the back end of the long run a mere 40 seconds off 5k pace. 40-50 seconds off 5k pace is classic 'tempo' effort per almost any running calculator. Savino may not have been running all out but he sure as hell wasn't running 'easy' on the back half of that run and was likely straining much too hard.

ah, the age old debate on the definition of a tempo run

What is the problem? The program is top notch. the coach is good. But a guy on Letsrun thinks he knows better.

A is might be over extending. though if you can run a 4:20 mile you should be running sub 25 easily. As I said, the risk with group training is always the slow guys overtraining trying to keep up with the best.

40-50s isn't classic tempo run pace. That is slower than marathon pace while tempo run paces are generally MP or faster . His tempo run pace is just over 5:00 if you go by hour run time.

So B is running slower than marathon pace at the end of a progression run. This isn't exactly some extremely hard workout. No it isn't an easy run where he just goes out and runs 6:30 miles but it isn't close to a tempo run effort or race effort. If someone writes 3 mile warm up, 10 miles at MP, 3 miles cool down, would you really consider that some crazy workout?

You want to argue the miles at 5:40 are sort of a waste? I know that is the view of some studies but there are plenty of coaches that do progress runs like this where you start at easy run pace and crank it down towards MP at the end.

Coach watching wrote:

Two freshmen on my son's team ran 24:45 tempo 5 miler in the fall. Some guys can roll on straight crushed limestone trails. They will probably run close to 14 flat 5k this year.

What team is that? So these freshman better be running low 23s or somewhere around 22 minutes for 8k. Please tell me what school has two freshmen running 22 minutes for 8k as freshman. I suspect they are eather lying or running a workout that is nowhere close to 8k. I have seen kids say", coach l ran a 5 mile tempo over winter holiday" and it was actually faster then their best all cross country season. It's rather a race like effort or short course, unless they were hurt all year and just getting fit. In your case it's eather BS, time trial, or short course.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

TT or Tempo wrote:

18 minute 5k girls tempo ' s at a 5:40 to 50 pace for 5miles?

Why not? Nicole Rice ran a 17:42 at that XC race. She is also a 16:52 5k runner. Doesn't 5:40-5:50 sound spot on for a tempo run for a 16:52 runner?

Not for 5 miles.!The 5 mile temp was on cross country, so actually she picked it up per mile from her best cross country race for another 2 miles and called it a tempo??? Lol are you serious? 17:42(5:40 pace) a few months before in a flat out race, but turns around adds 2 miles to the distance, minus the .1, and runs the same pace and calls it a tempo. No SR, that's a flat out race or short course.

Exactly! Look closely, they are showing off, as if they are deliberately trying to act like it's easy, but a good coach can see they are working hard. And after the run they look beat like they just ran a flat out race. They are laying flat on the ground beat! That is not the way to end a long run; laying on the ground beat, totally exhausted.

They were clipping 5:25 or so. I truly don't think any or most of those kids can't race 15 miles at a 5 flat pace. Clearly the effort was a pretty hard effort and based off their time trial video, they're leaving it on the easy runs. The 800 time trial was not impressive. And one kids is a total show off, actually doing a Ben Simmons at the end of it. That says it all! You would think that joker just made the Olympic Team, and he was totally spent too.

Correct. They should rename the video the Ole Miss time trial.

That Mario Garcia kid looks like a million bucks. Do we have a future NCAA Champ contender? That kid is going to breakthrough this season... 13:40s, 27:50 on the track. Stallion.

That's two of them you realize multiple others are sub 14 5k guys, sub 1:50 800 guys and sub 3:40 1500 guys

You got it. They are a top 10 team in the country.

Ole Miss went 1-2-3 at the SEC XC championship.

1 - 23:32.9 - Mario Garcia Romo JR

2 - 23:34.3 - Cole Bullock SO

3 - 23:34.3 - Waleed Suliman SR

24 - 24:43.2 - Ben Savino SR

33 - 24:58.5 - Robinson Snider SR

TT or Tempo wrote:

They were clipping 5:25 or so. I truly don't think any or most of those kids can't race 15 miles at a 5 flat pace. Clearly the effort was a pretty hard effort and based off their time trial video, they're leaving it on the easy runs. The 800 time trial was not impressive. And one kids is a total show off, actually doing a Ben Simmons at the end of it. That says it all! You would think that joker just made the Olympic Team, and he was totally spent too.

Tempo runs are supposed to be pretty hard (but not all out hard efforts). They are not easy runs. Running 8 miles at ~5:25 falls into that range for a bunch of kids who run ~29:00 10ks. 5 min pace for 15-18miles would be a good estimate of what they would run for a race and backing off 20s is beyond huge in terms of making this manageable.

Seriously have you guys never seen/down a training schedule where during a longish run (i.e. this run is only going to be like 90mins) where people do 8-12 miles at around MP? Thats pretty much exactly what this is. Or go look at the beasts cranking out 7 mile tempo runs at 5:20 at altitude and they are mainly a bunch of milers. Or lydiards 3/4 efforts for an hour. Or any of a zillion other coaches over the years.

And yes the kids come across as idiots. That might just me being old....

TT or Tempo wrote:

For starters, the women ran a PR at Louisville of 17 low all the way to 17:40 on that fast course for 5k and a 20:30 6k pr, but run 5:50 and 5:40s on a 5 mile temp? That's a race, not a tempo. In fact a lot of their videos appear to be race pace, possibly showing off for the video. The men are in the same boat, as some of their guys run 24 high to 25 for 8k during cross country, but pop along on an 8 mile temp a 5:20 to sub 5. That is a race! Or certainly not a temp! Unless they run a 4:20 pace for 15 miles or faster, they have no business running 5:30 on down on a 15 mile long run. That's not anywhere close to the proper pace based off any of their race times.

I am shocked, SHOCKED, to find that

(1) Some college kids are going nearly all-out to hang with their faster teammates on a "tempo" run

(2) Some college kids are trying to look cool on YouTube video.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

And yes the kids come across as idiots. That might just me being old....

I didn't think they were running to hard. They are an annoying bunch though. Who's the 800m guy who they wouldn't take the camera off. Deserves a good beat down.

Standard Setter wrote:

That Mario Garcia kid looks like a million bucks. Do we have a future NCAA Champ contender? That kid is going to breakthrough this season... 13:40s, 27:50 on the track. Stallion.

Ahhhhhh, l see Mario is playing on the boards, no he comes off as a show off and they are racing workouts, pure and simple.